Very Good News For The 2 Stroke!!!!!!!

[BMWPower]

I got this for a off a motocross web site
" AMA and their delegates just passed a preliminary vote to allow 144cc's. Final vote tomorrow. They wanted 150cc, but all manufactures could not get there without stroking the motor. That should put the HP in line with a stock 250F.

Just finished up the committee portion of AMA congress here in OHIO and I am very happy to report that we might have evened the playing field for 125 riders competing against the 250f's. Looks like you will be allowed to bore the bikes out to 144cc's to make them competitive. Representatives from Suzuki and KTM along with Wiseco were on hand to lend their input and support for this proposed rule change.

What this means is you will be able to run this bike as long as it's stamped with the cc displacement on the cylinder and no larger than 144cc's. This will NOT apply to the YOUTH class though as it's a 125cc class only so that will remain the same and I'm quite certain you WONT be able to race this 144cc Machine in the 125 Stock class at Lorettas. I know it leaves a few holes but I think in the end it will help struggling families going to the races who have to deal with a 4 stroke blowing up and can now go back to a 2 stroke with a more realistic rebuild bill from their local mechanic. The Wiseco Rep had the horsepower charts for both bikes and said they are very close when you put a 144 up against a 250 F and the rebuild cost when they go down is much less on the 2 stroke vs the 4 stroke. The KTM representative was very interested in this and I wouldnt be surprised to see a 144 kit available directly from KTM very very soon."

That would be sweet if the 250 class did the same.

 

[BPJNT]

That is great news!!! Please keep us updated on the final vote.

Now, will the manufactures make a 144cc stock bike?

 

[rodH]

What would the 250 2 stroke be increased to to "compete" with the 450s??? When I watch the 250 on supercross, they are right there (bike of choice), but in outdoor, where there are longer, big hills, etc......It seems like they are just a tad off (but not nearly as much as the 125 is to the 250f).

This is pretty good news. I have a deal that I can get from Kawasaki where I can get a smokin deal on any of their bikes. I was thinking about getting a 4, and keeping my 2 for the track. The more I ride 4 strokes the more I realize that it would just sit in my garage, which would make it a stupid purchase to ride my 97 RM over a 06 4 stroke. Now I am thinking of getting another 2 stroke or nothing. Not only are the 4s not as fun for me to ride (for MANY reasons), but the maint and service make it that much less attractive.

 

[BMWPower]

The AMA just passed two major new rules. First off, the Schoolboy class (125cc 12-15 Stock and Mod) is now a 2-stroke-only class nationwide.

The Schoolboy rule was passed unanimously by the AMA Congress today, thanks to the lobbying done by MX Sports and OEM representatives from Suzuki and KTM.

The other rule passed today by the AMA Congress had a little more trouble in the voting, but made it through by one vote. The new rule now allows 125s to overbore up to 144cc in the Mod classes. The purpose of this rule is to keep the cost of racing down and to elevate the competitiveness of the 125's against. the 250F's. However, this new rule only allows for modifying the bore and not the stroke.

After the overbore rule was passed the KTM rep was heard saying that KTM might produce a 150cc production 2-stroke for the 125 Mod class.

 

[marcusgunby]

I dont think it will make any difference to pro racing, they will all run 4 strokes, a few lower classes may run a 144 i guess.

 

[mtk]

What would the 250 2 stroke be increased to to "compete" with the 450s???

I think 265cc would be a good start. Eric Gorr offers 265cc kits for most 250s so at least that combination is viable.

 

[steve125]

I dont think it will make any difference to pro racing, they will all run 4 strokes, a few lower classes may run a 144 i guess.

Probably right with the pros. But for Joe racer it offers an affordable alternative to the 4 stroke. And I believe that was the AMA's intent all along.

 

[Rich Rohrich]

It's great news for the guys racing seriously every weekend who have been hurt by the cost of maintaining the new four-strokes. Good to see the AMA looking out for the little guys for a change.

 

[Chili]

Psst hey Rich if this get's adopted north of the 49th tell Eric that Troy and I are coming down for a visit :)

 

[X men]

I am not familiar with the different classes of racing in the USA, you say that the mod-classes are allowed now to up to 144 cc. But is it unther this rule that the nationals, and the supercross will be raced in 2006 ?

I hope that over here in europe, we will copy-paste that rule in our book :)

For the 250cc : if a 300 cc would be allowed, KTM and TM and also Gas Gas are ready they have an engine like that (at least for enduro)

I think the AMA made a good decision, in the interest of the thousants of people who like to race, but do not have the big dollars for a 4 stroke. Respect.

 

[DEANSFASTWAY]

Sounds good

I think its a good thing, it keeps the cheaters honest and opens up for closer competition . Wiseco will make a good bit as will the hop up shops . Its really a shame when a kid buys a 2 year old thumper thats on its last legs and has to dump $1500to $2k in it , now hell buy a used race bike with a spare cylinder. I like both 2 & 4 strokes so I see it as a good idea. Overbore only keeps the cost realistic. Best Regards DDD :aj:

 

[showtime0277]

where's the proof? Where can i find it?

 

[brentl]

Rich........450 equivalent

Do you think 265 cc would roughly equal a stock 450
I'm guessing you need more like 275 , I'd like to see what you think

 

[Masterphil]

Look at the 250SX motor, it's pretty much on par with the 450's as it is.

 

[dirtbikr99]

I think that the ama should have lowered the displacment of the 4 strokes by many 50 cc's or 25 cc's. The 125 cc has been like this for much longer than the 4 stroke have been around. I know there would be a problem because all the 250fs out now would no longer be able to race. But many we could put a 2 or 3 year plan into affect so that people have a heads up and can get the use out of there 4 stroke bikes before they cant race them. Also the new 200cc 4 strokes can have a special marking on them so people do not just out the 250f motors in the newer 4 strokes.
well what do i kno anyway
just my own uneducated opinion
what do u guys think?
Andrew Puco

 

[2-stroke diehard]

I could live with the idea of a CR300R. :aj: Kudos to them for allowing 144cc in that class, the 125s had become obselete.

 

[Zenith]

There tend to be a lot of people in-the-know on here, so does anybody know if the FIM have taken a stance on this rule? I'm sure they have discussed it, but are we likely to see it in Europe for '06, '07 or never?

 

[crazybeef]

The 2 stroke is done. It can't be saved.
Fritz Betzelbacher killed the 4 stroke in 1957. Doug Henry brought it back in 1997.The times change. :ahhh:

 

[mxneagle]

I do find this all very humorous. Do you remember 300's, 320, 400's etc. They were pretty much all over the map in early 70's trying to figure out the magic displacement. Dejavu!

 

[robwbright]

See my 2 recent posts in the Forward Motion forum for discussion of a new Eric Gorr RM 144. I just sent the second post, so it should be on there tomorrow.

Rob

 

[Zenith]

crazybeef - I'm not too sure. The reasons the 4 strokes went away the first time were quite different to what's happening now with the 2s. 2 strokes are lighter, faster, cheaper, quieter, easier to maintain and less complicated. 4 strokes are? Smoother. They're also hugely profitable for the manufacturer in spare parts. Hadn't you noticed they're considerably more expensive to manufacture, yet they're the same price as the 2 strokes? It's like PC printers; you can buy them for half nothing these days, but buy a new set of ink cartridges and you'll often pay half the price of the printer.
I said the main thing going for a 4 stroke earlier was how smooth it is; have you ever considered what would happen if you took a 2 stroke of equal capacity to a 250f, 250cc, and tuned it for a smoother powerband and a heap of torque? Drop the HP down from 45 to 35 but widen the powerband out? The huge CC advantage is literally the one and ONLY reason 4 strokes are selling at all.

mxneagle - True, but have you noticed the difference this time? There hasn't really been any chopping and changing with displacements. The 4 stroke limit for the 125 class was set, what, 5 years ago now. It made sense back then, the difference really wasn't that great, but 5 years on a huge amount has changed in the 4 stroke MX world. They've finally made a change, but it's a pretty lame attempt if you ask me. Manufacturers can't actually build and sell a 144 and it only applies to amateur racing, what's the purpose of that...

Anyway, back to my question :). Anybody heard any rumblings from the FIM about this? They must have something to say about it.

 

[G92Joe]

CR500af - big cc, low weight, low cost maint., low lap times.

 

[Zenith]

Haven't seen many AFs (read 0) floating around here lately though, and there aren't too many classes to ride them in either :(.

 

[bordrshane]

125

I miss the day of racing my 125 around the track casing everything that my 250 2st cleared. The reason 125's were so fun is because you could hold them wide open and use all the potential they had. 250fs have ruined that. There is no turning around. Each year the 4 stroke will become more reliable and as the materials that are produced become better. Face it, its a dieing breed. I also believe that making a 4 stroke quiter is easier than making a 2stroke quieter. Something that all of us will eventually need. Lower decibles.

 

[Nutty Professor]

I miss the day of racing my 125 around the track casing everything that my 250 2st cleared. The reason 125's were so fun is because you could hold them wide open and use all the potential they had. 250fs have ruined that. There is no turning around. Each year the 4 stroke will become more reliable and as the materials that are produced become better. Face it, its a dieing breed. I also believe that making a 4 stroke quiter is easier than making a 2stroke quieter. Something that all of us will eventually need. Lower decibles.

There is only one thing stopping Pros from going back to 2 strokes and that is the fact that the FIM have set out to deliberately destroy 2 stroke racing by setting up a bunch of rules that give 2Ts no chance.

Fuel injected two strokes running a dry sump oiling system could wipe four stroke race bikes off the face of the earth BUT they'll never be developed while the FIM refuses to budge. Are the FIM being controlled by the big manufacturers? My guess is yes.

As for the assertion that it's easier to quieten a four stroke, well you need to check the theory books, a 2T requires back pressure to make torque, a four stroke needs free exhast to make power. It's heaps easier to quieten a two stroke and keep it raceable.

Sadly, for both your wallet and your riding pleasure the anti 2T brigade have a big head start.

Congratulations to the sensible folks at the AMA for putting some balance back into the racing, only a fool would deny that 4Ts have the upper hand at the moment. Racing is being taken away from a vast posse of new kids to the sport because of the horrendous cost of 4T racing.

A great example good sense is in the FMX scene where you can ride whatever you like, and 250 2Ts reign supreme.

IMO the FIM needs to adopt four basic standards;

1) common rpm limits for each class
2) pump fuel mandatory
3) NO minimum weight in any class
4)2Ts to be no more than 65% of the 4T capacity limit