A bit disappointed in our riding brethren at Denton …

[Nestrick]

I am a relatively new rider [third season] … as such I do not have the experience that many of you folk do when it comes to understanding the ‘ins and outs’ of those who represent and perhaps, typify, our sport. Being such a new rider, for the past couple of years I have avoided riding on the major holiday weekends … in some respects, this is due to my shyness regarding the display of novice riding skills for such an old fart … but also, it made sense to me that I should stay off the trails and out of the way of all the more skillful riders who can only ride on the weekends. Anyway, this morning I was watching the weather forecast for the upcoming week only to be informed that today would be the last sunny day for about a week … my wife could tell I was a bit perturbed and suggested I go riding today despite the fact it’s a holiday weekend. Without much of a plan, I jumped at the offer and took off for Houghton Lake … my thought being that I would ride the new ORV Route connector trail from Denton to St. Helen and then maybe poke around on the Loops south of I-75 … all this assuming that the trails were dry enough to permit such a ride.

Well … this whole day turned out to be sort of a bust … I did get to ride for about an hour, but every trail I took wound up turning into a swimming pool filled with mud! On top of the relatively poor trail conditions, I got exposed to the “Riding Public” in their full glory. I’m typically not a ‘downer’ type person nor do I like to complain about other folks and their actions … but I felt I had to talk about this with someone in order to get these things off my chest and perhaps gain some perspective from you folks if you have the time to read and respond with some words of wisdom.

On approaching the Denton Trailhead, on Waco Road off M-18, one passes by a considerable portion of the Denton trail and its surrounding landscape while driving north on M-18 … about a mile from Waco Road I see a pack of dirt bikers riding down the side of M-18 going south … they are not on, in, near or even approaching any of the marked trails … by the way, these were not Dual Sport bikes. When I finally get to the trailhead I find it completely full and there were so many folks parked in the entrance, on the sides of the entrance, on the sides of the road, in the road, in the ditch, and folks going every direction on bikes and quads that I had a hell of a time just turning around to get out of there. I thought to myself … man, am I glad I haven’t run into these folks before. There was one gentleman, wearing no riding gear or helmet, just doing donuts on a quad in the entrance the entire time I was jockeying my rig around trying to get out … the dust was incredible and everyone in the area was totally immersed in the cloud of this one guy … he was still going at it when I got turned around and was driving out. At this point I almost lost my nerve and headed home … but I thought this is my trail system too … why should I be the one to leave … on thinking about it now, I guess I should have just come home.

Ultimately I opted to park on the side of a seasonal road at the entrance to the ORV route leading over to St. Helen … there was a lot of space along side this road which is also part of the ORV route for the Denton Trail … several other folks had also parked here. Before I could get my bike off the trailer a series of riders came down this road riding incredibly fast and they were only a few feet from our parked vehicles on a patch of deep, sandy & dusty road bed … amazingly, they circled back immediately, racing each other right through the area where there were also several small children running around unattended by their parents as far as I could tell. Next these same guys teamed up with some other folks on Quads and they all headed north on the two tracker that follows M-18 and is clearly marked for no ORV traffic. By the time I got ready to ride they were back and one of the Quad riders stops at the sign post and removes the white sign which designates the trail as off limits to motorcycles and ATVs and is waving it around in the air while he rides by me. By now I’m hurrying to get out of the area an onto the connector trail … the first couple of miles are dry, dusty sand … then the puddles begin to appear … first small, then larger, then deeper, until finally I hit one that was about 2 feet deep as the water went over the tops of my boots … I made it through but could see an even bigger one coming up … being that I was alone, I turned around and headed back toward Denton. While motoring along the ORV route on the east leg of the Denton loop I noted considerable traffic going both directions … a mix of Quad and bikes … most riding at reasonable speed for the congestion level … but several riding at outrageous speeds risking injury not only to themselves, but to others including some younger folks out riding with their parents. At virtually every intersection with old trails, two trackers or seasonal roads … all clearly marked for no motorcycle or ATV traffic … I can see several folks riding off in the distance. In one newly clear cut area there were two guys with pickup trucks doing donuts out in the middle of a field with no trails at all leading to their position … they apparently drove over virgin land to get out there and then decided to really tear up the countryside?

Finally, I hit the section of the trail that goes through the big swamp and there is a huge puddle that is over 100 feet across and almost 2 feet deep … the ATV guys had already cut a new trail along the side of this puddle but it was nasty and muddy … and I could see more big water ahead … so I turned around and headed back to my vehicle again.

On the trip back I witness the final blow for my day. Ahead of me is a father and son pair riding 4WD Quads … the old man is constantly reaching into a cooler on the back of his ride and pulling out stuff to eat and drink. On finishing consumption, the wrappers, boxes, cans and plastic pop bottles are being casually tossed onto the trail. To make matters worse, the old man is drinking beer … so the trail is being littered with beer cans! I stopped to pick some of the stuff up but realized I didn’t have any way to carry it on my bike … then I got mad, caught up with them and tried to be as reasonable as possible and asked them to please not litter up the trails and that drinking beer didn’t set a very good example for his son … yup, I got the classic gesture and verbal response … then he told me to mind my own business, which I glibly stated I was … this trail is as much mine as his and I am offended by folks such as him acting so irresponsibly. Even the kid had an obscenity for me as I rode off.

Well, I did get in about an hour’s worth of riding … it wasn’t the best time I’ve had on a bike … it is however, the first time I have come home feeling sorry that I went. I’m not sure what gets into people’s heads on holiday weekends … but activities such as I witnessed today are certainly the stuff that environmentalists can use to depict our community in a light that is not flattering. I don’t know where the DNR folks were today … they could’ve made a fortune handing out tickets … this is one time I actually wish some of them had shown up in the area.

I’ll get over this … I like trail riding too much to give it up over one bad experience … but somehow, I do think we need to figure out a way to provide better supervision to trail riding on the big weekends … otherwise this type of behavior may continue to grow.

For those of you who didn’t get out to ride this weekend … maybe, just maybe, in a small way it might be sort of a blessing … ???

terry nestrick :(

 

[2big4akdx]

Hey, one time I went up to the Gladwin Trailhead parking lot and was so digusted with the things I saw going on that I turned around and came home. But I did run into a CO officer that was on his way over there. Then just yesterday I parked at the Ambrose Lake parking lot( rode the new MCCCT south. Wonder where I got that idea? Thanks) and although it was fairly calm ,there were a couple of youngters, unsupervised, in and out of the parking lot do acceleration and braking tests.I have seen much more, and you will too.And the holidays do bring out the most people. Now I wonder...being a holiday weekend, and with the northern trail closed, what kind of damage happened up at Gladwin? The dnr berms up a trail to keep people off and someone has to think"Cool, they built me a jump!"

 

[Smit-Dog]

Terry - Sounds like a pretty disgusting experience. While I've never really ridden over a big holiday weekend, your story does make me feel a little better about getting some home projects done this weekend. The ironic thing is that I've been on 2 CCC Rites of Spring rides, and with approximately 900 riders and their families in one large staging area, I've never experienced anything close to what you observed. Then again, there aren't any quad riders at ROS... :think:

I'd forward your post to DNR management. On one of the busiest weekends of the year, I'd wonder why there weren't COs posted at every trail head.

http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7-153-10366_15383-24666--,00.html

There's also a ORV Trails Advisory Board Meeting scheduled for August 11. It'd be a good forum for relating your experience to those that need to hear it.

http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7-153-10366_22654---,00.html

 

[MWEISSEN]

Terry, I'm sorry you had such a bad experience with your riding this Memorial Day weekend. I think the holiday weekends bring out the lowest of low people. I've also never experienced the sites you mentioned all combined in one day, but have seen some people that I'd rather not have representing our sport.

I think you'll also find that most of these people fortunately don't venture too far out on the trail systems. I find most squidly type folk can't muster more than a couple miles down a trail system from a parking lot.

Also, areas to avoid are those that are closest to large cities, or major recreation areas (like Houghton Lake). The further north you go, the better the riding experience.

I also find that the trails on the west half of the state don't seem to attract as many goons that the east half. (Just my observations guys, I'm not trying to offend anyone by which side of the state they live on!)

Keep in mind coming and joining other Michigan Trail Riders next time you see a post for a holiday weekend. We should be able to meet you in spots that aren't that bad.

I hope you have a better ride next time!

 

[Nestrick]

Hey 2big4akdx, Smit-Dog & MWEISSEN ...

Thanks for the advice and stories of your encounters ... having now had a bit more time for reflection, and a chance to discuss it with my wife, who by the way is not a rider, but did listen and then remind me that virtually every behavior I described happening on the trail is something she sees almost every day behind the wheel of a car ... lack of courtesy, failure to follow rules like stopping at signs and lights or passing on the right, parking where it is clearly marked not to do so, speeding in residential areas ... the list goes on and on. I too see these actions, and am guessing that because I drive all the time, I have become somewhat inured to them … whereas, my riding is a relatively new adventure and therefore I am much more sensitive to its flavor.

The point being, behavior is behavior ... some folks tend to act badly in many areas of their lives anymore ... it's not that everyone is bad, just that things are changing and perhaps, we are losing some of the good things from the past and replacing them with updated versions ... sometimes better, sometimes worse.

Policing the public is probably a losing battle at best [e.g.; the Police seem to be losing control of our roads anymore] ... figuring out how to make folks in general aware of the importance of caring for our trails [and roads & all things public] might be the key to solving the dilemma we all face. Making the search to find that component of life which we all share and value above all else, then applying that respect when we are in situations where we are sharing our space might well be the working solution we seek.

Whoa … getting way too philosophical here … on rereading what I wrote about Saturday’s ride it did remind me to mention something else to you guys … namely, the part about yelling at that fellow for drinking beer and throwing the cans on the trail. Worries me a bit now … you guys could’ve taken my tirade to mean I don’t like beer … that would be way, way wrong … I just don’t appreciate folks who drink and drive [or ride] … throwing the empty cans on our trail is what really got my dander up and caused me to react the way I explained. Hope that clears up this matter … cheers!

terry nestrick :cool:

 

[2TrakR]

Wow, I could write a book agreeing with you, Terry. We see this negative behavior in a major way when camping to Gladwin on the holiday weekends. I'm positive that the majority of goons who go to Gladwin were up to "the next" system since the former was 2/3 closed. We ran through the Denton system on Saturday and can attest to the number of weekend warriors. Funny thing is the trail was relatively dead, but the Route was hopping. Seems everyone wants to go 100mph+ on a big wide road and nobody (again, relatively speaking) wants to ride trail. Fine with me, that means more good trail to ride.

We did maintenance on Geels South on Friday, seen 5 bikes the whole day.

Saturday we put the Toys for Kids DS (A Loop) route together; it runs from St Helen to Prudenville to Meredith and then back to St Helen. We use a lot of the SMTR/ORV Route to get through the Denton area. Lots of traffic, but not as bad as I thought it might be on such a weekend. We were purposely going slow to avoid goons. Only had one incident on a sharp corner where a 4xquad with 2 riders thought they should own the whole trail and I had to take evasive action.

Where were the COs on Saturday? I can tell you there was active enforcement in the Denton area as we were stopped by one and shot the BS with him for a while. He was out of Gladwin and was in this area 'cause he couldn't personnaly justify writing tickets in Gladwin for riding a trail that was open just 2 weeks ago. Nice guy. 10 minutes or so before we ran into him we passed a group of bikes/quads riding down the road. Mentioned this to him and he described the group exactly. Said x tickets were handed out plus 2 each for the quad riders who were double up (chuckle).

When we got near 55 by where 0ld 76 meets it, on the snowmobile trail (not ORV legal) we found two more COs. It's right by a huge hill that's been closed off with big rocks at the bottom of it. Anyway, this guy (his buddy in truck 2 just snuck back in the woods) checked our registration instead of just seeing that we had plates. Said they had been getting people just hanging plates on their bikes w/o really registrering them. He was also very nice - I need to stress that the DNR we dealt with over the weekend were friendly as all get out and very courteous.

The Jackson Trail Riders (we were camping with them) were doing maintenance on the St Helen loops over the weekend as well. They encountered several more COs, but I think 2 were the same two we had met (above). Bill ran into a State Boy by I-75 who almost had to get the ticket book out since he didn't have his paperwork with him, but let him go to the truck to show proof. Guess the cop was busy along 76 chasing quads & writing tickets too.

Sunday we put the short DS loop together and saw now LEOs and a few bikes, and those were on the MCCCT just north of Ambrose Lake who passed us while I was resting (wasn't feeling so hot for some reason).

Monday I went out in the storm and brushed/signed the new MCCCT south of St Helen. Have to get back there for 10 more ORV Trail signs, but otherwise it's in pretty good shape (I put up 30 triangles in a 4 mile stretch). Luckily it quit raining right when I got back to camp..

If you've not ridden that section, you're missing out. In fact, there's pretty new trail from just south of 55 (south of St Helen) all the way to the Rose City loop. Definitely could spend a day on "tight" trail.

Back to the topic at hand... You will meet the nicest people on a Honda - as long as it's not a holiday weekend. The behavior you saw is the reason we have trail closures and when you think about it, it's not a bad idea after all(?).

 

[YZMAN400]

Terry I had such a good weekend at Drummond island ridding with polite curtious folk that I shouldn't of even read your post.

People like what you saw infuriate me.

I just spent the weekend up on the Rock fixing damage that stupid people like what you described cause. Why why why do people have to take down our marks. why do they have to drop trees in the trail to block it off. Why do the idiots that you described have to do what they do.

If I saw what you described I would probably turn right around, and head to the nearest cop shop and report it. Get them out there with a flatbed tow truck and start conficating bikes. Think that would get the message across?

I dont know what to tell ya. Confront these people if ya dare, ignore them if ya can. Have faith brother.... Not all of us are like that.

Hey this will cheer ya up. One of the trails on Drummond that we have been working on keeps getting destroyed by hunters. They take down our marks and block the trail. This trail has been gps'd and is on state land. These hunters / squaters have no right doing this. Well this year I got a little more agressive. He had a riffle ground stand near the trail. It is no more. We destroyed it. Tore down his no tresspassing signs and cut then in half. Even threw a triangle mark on the pile of rubbish so he knows who did it. Think he will get the massage? The funny thing is that this blind is a riffle blind ie deer hunter ie we cannot legally ride on the trail system during riffle season. So what is this guys problem? We are never out there when he is hunting. Not to mention that this particular trail is a tad nasty technical. Not many people travel on it anyways.

AARRGGHHHH I cant stand the idiots in this world.

 

[Nestrick]

Hey 2TrakR & YZMAN400 & others ...

I'm almost sorry I posted my 'experiences' ... they tend to set a tone that I certainly do not wish to see tie up any more of our time ... I appreciate the responses and advice ... but, please let us not continue to dwell on the actions of a few ... instead, let us pay attention to those positive activities in which you guys participated as they are the proper foundation for preserving good memories of this holiday weekend ...

2TrakR ... you are amazing ... do you get off your bike to sleep or do you just pull over and lean it against a post? Or, have you learned to ride while asleep? Regarding the new trails south of M-55 in St. Helen ... that's where I was trying go via the ORV route from Denton ... the water was way too deep for me not too far east of M-18 and I wound up turning around ... in fact, that's the first time I have ventured into water that actually went over my the tops of my boots when I was riding alone! I believe I did see some of these new trails last fall just after installation and signing ... they were near virgin, quite tight and very beautiful ... I want to get back there soon! While you gave us a verbal road map to your tour, you didn't say much about the condition of the actual trails you ran. How about those new trails south of St. Helen ... much water or mud present ... obviously you got through OK? Geels south ... OK too relative to riding conditions? Did you get over to Geels north and is the south part of the trail near the parking facility passable yet?

YZMAN … your escapades with the hunting blind may well have been the proper corrective action … let’s hope it ends there … remember though, the next guy through there on a bike may meet that fellow when he’s armed ... I would hate to see this situation continue to escalate. I have gotten you off track and off topic … how about spending some time telling us about the fun parts of your ROCK-ride … and in your own words, how about those pic’s ??? I look forward to the story …

terry nestrick :)

 

[70 marlin]

Terry: Don't let the fools sour you on our great northern MI! I managed to ride my "Husqvarna" for about 3 hours this weekend. The ride was kind of boring, kind of a circle track thing. I mowed my lawn. I would have like to been riding on my Berg with you. On a holiday weekends I would have suggested a bike only trail system. But as I always tell JR a bad Day on the Berg is better than a good Day on the Husqvarna! "Lawn mower"

 

[bbarel]

Holiday weekends always bring out all the yahoos. You had better stay away from Bull Gap hill in Mio on a holiday weekend or you might be scarred for life.

P.S. You write "it made sense to me that I should stay off the trails and out of the way of all the more skillful riders who can only ride on the weekends". I disagree - go ride whenever you want to. The trails are for everyone from beginner to expert. Just get over when faster guys come up, and most guys will give you plenty of time to get over for them...

 

[Timr]

Terry,

I can visualize the scene that you described. Back in '91, me and some friend from college went camping at Ambrose lake on Memorial day weekend, and it was a zoo. We got there about 7:00pm on Friday night. The campground was already full. So, we doubled back down the entrance road about 300 yards to that big filed on the right. We pulled in there and pitched out tent away from the crazies. Back in the campground, people were ripping around on quads and acting like idiots. Somebody walked out to where we were and suggested that we move into the campground since we might get hit by somebody in the night. OK? so we moved the tent and wedged into the campground. There was a HUGE bon-fire going. We built a small fire and went to bed about 11:00pm. We could hear and see headlights from quads until about 3:30 in the morning. At one point, my friend joked that he was going to get up at 5:30 and fire up his 250 two stroke and do laps around the campground to pay back for the lack of sleep caused by the quad guys.

Fortunately for us, this madness did not extend to the trail system. We rode the ambrose lake loop, took the connector west towards west branch and never really saw anyone in the woods. So, it wasn't too bad.

 

[KX250MiRider]

Terry,
Sorry to hear about your experience on the Denton Loop. Just FYI I did take your advice on not running the Denton loop and heading to Higgin instead. Yesterday we waited out the rain, but then got in a decent 2 hour ride. Pretty muddy out there but still a good time, the new guys we had with us had a blast. Only one other truck in the parking lot when we took off. Thanks again for the advice.

:cool:

 

[2TrakR]

Regarding the new trails south of M-55 in St. Helen ... that's where I was trying go via the ORV route from Denton ... the water was way too deep for me not too far east of M-18 and I wound up turning around ... While you gave us a verbal road map to your tour, you didn't say much about the condition of the actual trails you ran. How about those new trails south of St. Helen ... much water or mud present ... obviously you got through OK? Geels south ... OK too relative to riding conditions? Did you get over to Geels north and is the south part of the trail near the parking facility passable yet?

We ran through the mud/water east of M18 on the SMTR/Route. Wasn't bad at all although I don't fault your decision to avoid walking back to camp!
New trails south of St Helen -
ORV/MCCCT leading out of (or to, depending on the direction you are going) the Motorsports area is nice. Not really quaded out yet, fun trail with plenty of elevation changes, twists/turns and son on. One mud hole that got our attention (and had already been warned about it). My bike needed assistance via Flintstone pedal power to get through and Larry got to try out the Yamaha 2WD system (that's where I rotate his front tire and pull on the forks while he pushes the back and while spinning madly). Couple fun short hills that will get your attention, recommended riding. This is tight trails and you won't get much speed up.
The new MCCCT/ORV south of M55 (or East West Branch Road, depending on which side of the sign you are standing) is still quite unused, tight and very fun. It took me about an hour and a half to ride through it in first gear - I was doing trail maintenance at the time so the time reference is way off. There are about 6 miles of new trail along here. At one end is the MCCCT heading to Gladwin (and 3 ORV Routes too) and the other end is ORV Route and some trail. It's worth the drive to run it.
St Helen #3 trail is also unused and worthy of riding (I think most of the actual trails are in pretty good shape in this neck of the woods). We ran the MCCCT from Fairview Road to Rose City road, which is what you wrote up recently. Still in the same condition, tight, unused fun trail.

 

[MWEISSEN]

2Trakr, do you have GPS coordinates for the tight trails that you're describing, like maybe the start points?

 

[2TrakR]

Shout if you need MapSource (Garmin) data files or PDF maps of the trails, easy to provide.
NorthWest corner of new ORV/MCCCT -> N44.28383 W84.42950
North end of new ORV/MCCCT -> N44.34855 W84.36968
South end of new ORV/MCCCT -> N44.34906 W84.21460

Coordinates in decimal degrees..

 

[70 marlin]

2TrakR What Gps unit do you use?

 

[MWEISSEN]

Yeah, Mapsource files would be fantastic! Thanks! You can send them to mweissen at chartermi dot net.

 

[2TrakR]

I run a Garmin eTrex Vista and just bought a Garmin GPSMap 60C. Both are mounted on RAM mounts to the bikes (sleds if the ground is white).
For a MapSource file with the tracks of three decent trail sections: MapSource file