Enduro and woods experts, a question

[tigerowner]

I am looking to get back in to woods riding after a 7 year lapse in judgement ( stopped riding dirt, what was I thinking). I was once an accomplished trail rider after spending 14 years riding Rampart Range outside of Denver, CO. I have owned a 1980 MX175, 1984 IT 200, 1986 TT350, and 1989 CR500 that was fully modified by Pro Circuit. Out of all the bikes I owned the IT 200 was by far the fastest in the woods but I had to use every bit of the power it had.

I am looking to buy a new bike and am wondering about the new breed of four strokes vs. 2 strokes. I want a blend of flickability and power. What are your opinions of the new Euro 4 strokes (400-600) vs a euro 250-350 CC 2-stroke in performance and handling. I am considering a new Husqvarna TE or WR (yes kTMs and Husabergs are nice too). I think a TE450 or EXC400 would be a good compromise. A TE570 or 520EXC may have too much power in the woods and a TE250 may leave me wanting more although the test I read said that it has the power of many japanese 400s. Are my thoughts reasonable or are 2-strokes still the way to go?

David

 

[tigerowner]

Anyone..anyone.........Bueler.....Buler.

Now I know that you KTM guys like to chat about your bikes, and if you own a 520 or 400 EXC then you probably have ridden a 2-stroke EXC between 200 and 400 ccs. Please tell me that someone here rides!! I understand that the Husky and Husaberg riders are fewer and far between.


Cheers,

David

 

[agitt73]

my buddy an a class rider tested the 250exc against the 200mxc

he chose the 200 due to faster lap times;)

 

[KTMike]

I think it'll depend on your frame size. I'm tall (6'2"), so I prefer a larger bike. The 250 EXC is perfect for me. I've heard alot of shorter guys say they prefer the 200 or the Gas Gas bikes, as they're built on smaller frames.

I've ridden the 125 EXC, 200 EXC, 250 EXC, 300 EXC and the 380 EXC. I'd say that the 250 and 300 are my favorites - I like the punch of a larger bore, but the 380 can be tiring.

-- Mike

 

[tigerowner]

I am 5' 10" and 195 lbs. I don't think that a WR 360 or 380EXC is out of the ball park. I don't want to go below a 250 because of the occasional steep climbs and the extra 35 lbs I put on since I have stopped riding dirt weekly. I am riding the family TT350 cow now and am anxious for a new bike I can kick some but on. I can't decide between the 2strokes and 4 strokes though.

Thanks for the responses so far

David

 

[DanS]

It really depends on what kind of power you like. My 300exc is like an electric tractor until it gets to the power band and then has a smooth 2 stroke hit on top. It has taken awhile to get it dialed like this but I love it. It's strong enough to run open class in the desert. The only thing I would trade it for would be 520exc and that's just for desert racing. Choosing a new bike truly has become a personal thing. The bikes you are looking at are all top notch and none really stand out as being "THE bike to get". Try your hardest to get a ride on as many as you can. That way you won't be left wondering about your choice.

 

[Rodzilla]

Tigerowner,

I just got my (new to me) 400 exc. I'm coming off of an XR400 so you know I'm used to throwing a pig bike around :confused: I have not had a chance to woods ride as we are still two months out from the spring thaw.

The KTM is a great bike and I would recommend it. Power is good, not a "hit" type power like a YZ but it'll make your eyes water on top with the 6 speed.

The bike is still not in the leage of a two stroke weight wise. Sounds like the weight is important to you so take this for what it's worth.

I ride Rampart and I think if the trails got any tighter than that, the big thumpers may be a handfull if your are riding truely tight woods.

I'm about your size at 5'10 and 185 lbs.

 

[KDXfile]

When you mention "power and flickability" and considering your size, the first bike I think of is a Gas Gas 300 or 250. After that, KTM 250 or 300 EXC. Any of those would be an excellent choice.

 

[maicomotoman]

I was a "2-stroke only" guy until I rode the 400 Husaberg. The counterbalenced motor makes it very flickable. It is only a few pounds lighter than the KTM, but feels WAY lighter due to the reduced gyro effect. Actual weight: 250 #s ready to ride, no gas. The clincher for me was the way it makes power. Smooth:D WAY smooth, and extremely wide powerband. Just pick one gear and ride. I am able to hang with some guys that I couldn't keep up with on my 250E/XC. I haven't timed myself, but I think that I am 20% faster on the thumper. If they weren't available to everyone, it would be cheating;) Try a modern 4-stroke, they are worlds away from the old ones. Just make sure you can commit to the extra expense and maintainence, you might not want to settle for less!

 

[Cuz]

Tigerowner,

I feel your pain. I got back into riding a few years ago and I picked up an RMX250 and really enjoyed the bike but in the back of my mind I kept wondering about what the newer 4-strokes were like.

Eventually I rode a few of the new 4-stroke bikes and was instantly in love with them. The bike that I ended up with is an XR440 with a ton of other mods and I am substantially faster on this bike than any 2 stroke I have ridden. Even though it is old tech compared to the other 4-strokes it just fit me from the very first ride.

I have ridden Rodzilla's 400EXC. It is a sweet bike and a much more capable bike than mine but I am much faster on my XR. It just fits my lazy, "I want to go fast but I dont want to shift or clutch a lot while doing it riding style"

There are so many factors to consider:
Front wheel steering Vs rear
More shifting and clutching or less
More weight or less
And so on.

Some reasons I like the 4-strokes are:
The torque
Wider powerband (usually)
Less vibrations
Less shifting
Front wheel steering
More easily dual sported

To make a long story short it is the bike you feel most comfortable on.

I am glad you brought up the TE450. I have been obsessing about this bike ever since I heard about it and dying to talk to someone about it. So please excuse the rambling that is to follow.

It sounds like the perfect bike for me. From what I understand it supposed to be pretty torquey.

Just look at the list of standard equipment:
237 lbs. dry weight
Electric start
Aluminum bars w/adjustable mounts
Brembo brakes
Excel Rims
Titanium valves and exhaust
6 speed
Hydraulic clutch
Computer with pickup built into the calipers.
The plug is even suppossed to be easy to get to!

Here is a link if anyone is interested.

http://www.husqvarnausa.com/2002models/enduro/2002_te450.html

It looks like the only thing you would have to do is add handgaurds and go. From what I have read about the TE250 the 450 should also be pretty quiet.
I didn't mean to turn this into a pitch for the new Husky. It's just such a cool bike! I even have as my screen saver! I must be sick.

I feel much better now that I let all that out! It had been building!:)

I hope I have been helpful.
Mike

 

[woods_rider1]

I have a 250 MXC and installed a CEK needle ($5) and a 13 tooth C/S sprocket ($13) and 2:3 race gas/premium mix. This is by far the smoothest woods bike I have ridden. Plenty of power, great suspension, and that KTM quality!!! Gotta love it!

 

[Enduro_Nut]

:)My question and situation were identical to yours - I ended up purchasing a 00' 400 VOR enduro(my 1st 4 stroke) because of the weight being lighter(239lbs.)than the other thumpers(except Husaberg) and it's EASY to start. Then curiosity got the best of me and I purchased a 00' 250 GasGas.
Now I prefer my GG for ultra tight stuff but the VOR for everything else.
Talk with Brad in Longmont @ Fun Wheels, he's a good guy.

 

[HiG4s]

Not to say you shouldn't go for a bif bore if that's what trips you trigger, but I don't think you'll have too much trouble in any environment with a KTM or GAS GAS 200. I'm 5'9" 190lbs and just came back to riding last year after several years off. My last bike was an 89 KTM 250 EXC and now I'm riding a 99 Husqvarna CR125. I was very suprised at the power of the new 2-strokes, they have much more than they use to have. Matter of fact rather than buying a bigger bike, as I had planned to ride the 125 only a year or two until I got back into it, I think I'm going to go with a 150cc kit and a flywheel weight get the shocks done, and keep the Husky. I love the light weight of it.

 

[Cuz]

I don't know how my original message got posted twice. I tried to delete but I guess I don't have the permssion to do that.

Sorry for the double post.

Mike

 

[tigerowner]

Well, I too am jazzed up by the new Husqvarna TE 450. It seems to be winning several enduros over in Europe in 400 form. It is the only thing stopping me from buying a 2000 WR 360 that was in the paper last weekend. I have ruled out the TE 570 as it is more of a desert racer and it's wheelbase is an inch and a half longer than the other models. That is great for speed but not good in the woods. The TE 250 still intrigues me after readintg the preproduction test from Austrailia.

As for my riding style, I like the tighter stuff. For those who know the Rampart trail names I prefer the tightness of trails like Tomahawk and Long Rock (many Steve Hatch pictures of this spot in Dirt Rider Mag in the early 90s) rather than the straight hills of Powerline (although the reroutes have wound it around a bit). I developed a technique for the hardpacked gravel covered surfaces of Rampart on my 200 that I have not been able to fully reproduce on the older 4-strokes or open class 500cc 2 strokes. When approaching a corner I locked up the rear wheel leanint to the inside of the corner to get the bike sliding sideways. Just before the apex of the corner I would release the clutch with the throttle open wide and blast out the other end. The 500 had too much power to manage and the TT is too tractor like for this approach. The newer freer revving four strokes may allow some of this and give me the additional power I want for the steep hills.

The main thing keeping me from 2-strokes now is the threat of a ban on public lands. THe 300 EXC and WR360 are tempting though.

Thanks for the input so far and keep riding!

Cheers,

david

 

[The Tortoise]

1. I'd choose 300EXC if weight, power and low maintenance are important. The 300 will be harder to control than the 400 or 520EXC. The replys I get from guys I ride with is it beats you up. I loan my wifes bike to them (a TTR250) and they prefer it to the 300. They have ridden before but like you haven't ridden for a long time. I felt the same as they until I worked out harder at gym and learned good throttle and clutch control. Now the 300 is light and easier to control.

2. I'd choose 520EXC if ease of use is important:
The 520 is much easier to drive. It has power but not as much as 300. The 300 jumps off the line. The 520 has tons of torque and is mellow. It just keeps going. Hard to get into trouble on this. I have riden the 520 against my wifes TTR250 and my 300 in the woods twice for min of 1 hour. Against the TTR250 it is lighter and much easier to handle. (The lettering saying 520 scares people, Boo). The TTR250 has fun zip in 1st and 2nd gear but feels heavy when riding against 520. The 300EXC feels light and snappy agaisnst the 520EXC. The 520 just rolls on mellow with no real kick. Lots of power after 1/2 throttle. When going over rocks and obstacles the 520 is essier than 300 because you can walk it over with clutch. The 300 wants to fly. You have to be on it.

2. Forget the 400 EXC. I had a 100 deposit on one. Drove a 400 in desert and was looking for the power. There is no power. I drove on desert single track and whoops.

I have riden the 520 in the woods twice, 300 in the woods and desert many times, the 400 in desert once and the TTR 250 many times.

Conclusion:
The TTR250 is a great fun bike with electric start. Good in woods and good to start out on. Small and easy to drive. Sell after 6 months to a year and get 520 or start on 520.
The 300 is going to wear you down but after you grow into it it is fun. I'd say it is the fastest of all the above bikes when a expert rides it. I'm a beginner.
The 520 is my first choice of all bikes for it is easy to control and you can grow into it without much trouble.
Forget the 400. I was set on this bike but greatly disapointed in engine performance. If I had gone from a XR400 I'd say differently. By the way I have riden a XR400 several times too. Good bike. So is XR 250.

Best is 520, then 300, then I'm open from here

doug
The Wordy Tortoise

 

[Cuz]

Tigerowner,

The TE250 does sound like a really nice bike but from the info that I gathered the 450 is only 7 pounds heavier. The additional 200cc's would be a substantial benefit. From what I have read about the 400 they say it does not hit as hard as say a WR. If I am correct they say it is closer to an old school 4-stroke with a smoother power delivery. The 450 is supposed to be developed for the American market so maybe it will have a stronger hit to it.

It sounds to me like with your riding style you need something that hits hard and revs fast and is lightweight. Sounds like you have a 2-stroke riding style. I didn't get that impression about the Husky. I read an article that I found after clicking a link for the TE250 that was in an earlier post in the KTM forums and it said the smooth power delivery is what helped the Husky beat out the competition. That info actually excited me because I use the torque of the 4-stroke rather than the revs. (I don't really have much choice on an XR) The 450 could be an entirely different animal though. The price mentioned on the site did not seem too unreasonable considering the standard equipment.

On a completely different subject. I think I say in your post that you live in Utah. There is a group of guys going to Utah in April. If you are interested in hooking up with some fellow Rampart riders you ought to check with Rodzilla. I think he is pretty involved in organizing the ride. I will probably not able to attend this time but maybe in the future.

If you find anymore info on the TE450 please share with the group. Maybe in post specifically about the 450. I will do the same if I find out anything else. Please keep us informed of you choice of bikes.

Talk to you soon,
Mike

 

[bud]

There's some other husky reviews in au mags too, another for the te250, one for the 450 and one for the 02 360. I can email them if you like :).

 

[tigerowner]

found the tests, thank you.

TE-450/250 test

I am edging closer to the TE450. The reports from Australia say that it handles almost identically to the 250 but has the power of a 520EXC and the top end hit of a WR426. This bike sounds hot! May still consider the 360 though.

David

 

[tigerowner]

Cuz,

Thanks for the ride info. I will get the old TT ready and check in with Rodzilla. It is time to brush the dust off of me and my bike. Unfortunately I don't think that i will have a new ride for a few months.

David

 

[Cuz]

That would be great! I think you can click on my profile and send them to me that way. How do you like your Husky? Have you had any problems or anything?

I checked out your pictures and helmetcam footage. Very cool!! I would love to ride there sometime. I love the tight trees that you were riding through. Where in 'stralia were you riding?

Mike

 

[Rodzilla]

Cuz,

You get that TE and you'll get to ride my KTM a lot more!!!:)

(mainly because you won't get my butt offa your bike!!)

You as ready to ride as I am?:think

T.O. Drop me a line, the COTrailriders group is doing Moab April 4-8.

Some are camping some are staying in town. You are welcome to come for a day or the whole trip. Drop me a personal message and I'll get you the info

RZ

 

[Cuz]

On a day like today that is all I can think about!! Take a look at Buds pictures and helmetcam footage. I was leaning and bobbing and weaving at my desk and that sound of the engine was music to my ears. Even though it was low-fi I wanted to crawl in to the picture. Pueblo was fun but.....

I might have to sell everything I have and get the TE. The downside is that I was in Fay Myers (broke my shift level at Pueblo) the other day and the sales guy said that they were thinking of not carrying Husky anymore because of parts availibility and a few other reasons. That would be a sad thing. :whiner: This bike, so for as I can gather, would be perfect for me.

I hope you don't mind me dropping you name to tigerowner. I figure the more the merrier.

Mike

 

[ktm033]

i bought an '02 400 mxc, had factory connection work the suspension, put a clarke tank on it, 454 big bore kit installed, big gun exhaust on order, along with EE brush guards, EXCEL wheels, Michelin tires, think that's it, convinced that I could not find a better woods ride!

 

[tigerowner]

Damn BUd,

I am slobbering over your pics and video. I want to ride!!!

Cheers,

David