Michigan Trails - Brainstorming Part II

[2TrakR]

It will probably take a few more threads to accomplish this, but here's the next step. I've noted the comments taken under Woodsy's original idea for the brainstorming thread. Those have subsequently been summarized and categorized below. The hope is that further comments, suggestions and ideas will be presented in this thread; discussion of all points is encouraged. TBL is discouraged from posting in this thread.

Data:
Accurate statistics relating to ORVs (usage, user base, # on trails, etc.)
Advertising of local businesses @ trailheads
Inventory of ORV accessibly county roads

Infrastructure:
Additional spending on trail maintenance
Cell phone coverage of trail systems
Connectivity of ORV Routes (linear trails)
Cycle only Trail (more)
Kids riding area/trail(s)
Larger Parking Lots, better ingress/egress
Linear Trails (loop connectors)
Loading ramps @ trail heads.
Loop options on one way trail
More challenging trails; challenging loop options off main trails
More trail grading (whoop removal)
More trails of all type for motorized use
Parallel Trails (cycle/ATV)
Relocation of existing trails
Restrooms @ trailheads
Separated trails, separated use fees/stickers
Trail spurs for services (gas/food options)
Trail system/area in SE Michigan, connector trail to other systems further north
Use RTP program to fund SE Mich Use Area/Trail(s)

Legal:
Allow ATVs to be made street legal
Law enforcement who ride trails on ORV
Legal to ride from a designated camp to trail system
Mandatory Safety Training for all riders under 25
More law enforcement
Non-law enforcement trail riders for aid, assistance and education (ie ORV Safety Patrol)
Open forest roads in Lower Peninsula
Open snowmobile trail to ATVs
Removal of age restrictions for ATV operation

Other:
Volunteer forest clean ups

Signage:
E911 System
Education/signage @ trail heads for trail types, use and consequences
GPS trail markers
More signing of trails (such as you are here)
One way Trails
Road names on stop signs
Sign plans for each trail
Signing of private drives in USFS areas
Two way trails

 

[FLEM]

another for the infrastructure,would be multiple trailheads for loops ,and some picnic tables at the traileads

 

[woodsy]

Excellent job 2trakr and THANK YOU to everyone who has been contributing!!!
I second the motion on the idea of picnic tables - food, bikes and buddies - WHO COULD ASK FOR MORE??? ;)
Woodsy

 

[INCA]

How about dancing on the picnic tables?

 

[MWEISSEN]

Since we're adding a picnic table, how about one of those heavy duty DNR grilles that they have in State Parks?

One other thing on the Cycle-only vs. ATV trails. I think one of the best solutions is the combined trail system, like the Manistee and Tin Cup trail systems. This is the most economical system to implement (using the same trailhead for ATV's and Cycles) and discourages the ATV user to try to use the single track area. Using the cycle gate system that Flem suggested would further discourage use of ATV's on cycle-only trails.

Also having both types in the same trailhead would allow socializing of both cycle and atv riders before/after the ride. This also allows friends that ATV ride come with cycle riders to enjoy the same area. I've seen less ATV damage on these types of trails than on those that started as cycle trails only to be widened by ATV use (Evart, White Cloud, parts of the Kalkaska trail, even though theres a great ORV route section there).

Thanks for compiling all of these ideas Jeremy! I can't wait to see the new mapbook.

 

[morgan]

I really like the idea of the loading ramps. But I was trying to figure out why they haven't done this already.

Then it dawned on me last night at around 2am (an epiphany). You would have all the squids trying to jump it. Then some dufus would try it in his truck. Might not be a bad thing. Stort of like natural selection. It would keep those types from reproducing. M.

 

[MWEISSEN]

I really like the idea of the loading ramps.

If memory serves me correctly, there is one of these types of ramps on the north Frederic parking area off of 612 (page 7 in your MCCCT book). Very nice!

One way to preveent jumping on it would be to put posts on the front of it, close enouugh together to keep squids from jumping on it, yet far enough apart to allow loading.

 

[Matt R]

Another alternative to the loading ramp is a "loading dock" (not sure if this is the correct term). Imagine the ground dug out to make a negative angle ramp like semi-trucks use. You would back your vehicle into the dock, then ride/push your bike into your vehicle or trailer.

This would discourage people from jumping their bikes/ATVs since they would be dropping off a ledge and into a ramp. Of course, someone would still do it but at least they would not be launching into the air.

The only disadvantage to this type of loading dock is the need for drainage. Without a drain pipe, the loading dock would become a swimming pool after a good rain.

 

[FLEM]

the loading ramp could have a sharp 90 degree turn with only 8-10 feet of clearance to a fence or some sort of blocking apparatus. that way it would be real ard to get any speed. also make it a ticketable offense.

 

[woodsy]

Lets see...
Where feasable, how about a parking lot light at every trailhead. Thieves HATE lighting!!
Also, how about a Free Ride day (no ORV sticker required) like the Fisherman have on free fishing day.
And maybe a reduced rate ORV Sticker for our retiries.

 

[buffmaster]

Here's one to go along w/Woodsy's idear. How about a weekend pass or a one day pass ORV sticker? I know a lot of guys down south that don't hit the trails that often and are mostly MX'ers, but for some reason whine about forking out money for a cheap sticker, IMO, for one or two days worth of riding.

 

[morgan]

Here's one to go along w/Woodsy's idear. How about a weekend pass or a one day pass ORV sticker? I know a lot of guys down south that don't hit the trails that often and are mostly MX'ers, but for some reason whine about forking out money for a cheap sticker, IMO, for one or two days worth of riding.

Wow, I'd think $16 for a weekend of riding would be cheap---not to speak of it actually being good for a year. West Virginia has a one day pass and it's $18.

But one thing that's gotten into my pocket book has been the State Forest Campground fees. Neat if you got a break there if you purchased an ORV sticker-----or if you are working on the trails. Anymore I just camp in the woods but I like the security of the SFCG. But then again I had the county cops banging on my camper door a 3am one night while camping at Weber Lake SFCG. :pissed: M.

 

[MWEISSEN]

And maybe a reduced rate ORV Sticker for our retiries.

Arrgh! This made me remember I've got only six years before I start getting AARP discounts! :yikes: Ten cent coffee at McDonalds! Let's see - Fred, Woodsy, you've gotta be in there too..... :nener:

Oh yeah, in staying with the theme of the post - I'd like to see trash recepticles available at major trail heads.

 

[Godzuki]

the lighting is a realy good option, and maybe a camping area at the trail head so you can have all the picnic tables, and sturdy dnr grills you need. howabout a pay phone to at trail heads especially the ones where cell phone coverage is nill.

ohh the one day or weekend would be nice i know several people from ohio and kentucky that come up here to ride 1 maybe 2 weekends a year mostly one. and a 5 dollar pass might be nice for out of stater's

 

[3KDXXR2]

Any one who thinks that 16 dollars is to much to pay for a day of riding is to cheap to ride. I pay 20 dollars per bike in Illinois to ride for a day. I used to pay 16$ a year to ride in just one county of Wis. Riding in the great state of Michigan ,where riding is Dirtbiking heaven, Is a Privilege And a Bargain! I for one am Glad to have the opportunity To visit your great state And meet all the nice people that I have had the Privilege to meet. 2tracker you are amazing the way you keep your cool and still respond to top wop. Top wop, I have enjoyed the way you passionately keep coming back to try and get the answer you are looking for . Im sure that If you take this passion ,and can start a club like the CCC , Your clout combined with that of the CCC working together will Produce what we All would like and that is more trails and more fun. Kind regards, Curtis By the way the Bears Got robbed yesterday even though they have been pretty bad all year.

 

[3KDXXR2]

Sorry I think half of that last post belongs in Impractical Data. Curtis

 

[2TrakR]

This one has sort of been mentioned, but not in this way (I think):
Trail Pass. Keep the ORV sticker as it stands but add in a Trail Pass (ala Snowmobile) if you ride the trail system. 90% of that money would go to trails, 10% to enforcement.
Now, should we still use ORV sticker money for trail maintenance?

 

[woodsy]

2trakr, any idea what the breakdown of current ORV Sticker dollars are???

 

[Smit-Dog]

2trakr, any idea what the breakdown of current ORV Sticker dollars are???

http://www.dirtrider.net/forums3/showpost.php?p=748816&postcount=72

 

[woodsy]

http://www.dirtrider.net/forums3/showpost.php?p=748816&postcount=72

Thanks Smitter and THANKS for the card to!! :cool:

 

[INCA]

Education - $1.00
Agent/Dealer Commission - $.25
ORV Trail Improvement - $15.00
Improvement & Maintenance Grants - Not Less Than 50%
Damage Restoration Grants - NTL 12.5%
Law Enforcement - NLT 31.25%
County Sheriff's Dept. - 24%
Administration of Act - NLT 3.125%
Law Enforcement or Trail Improvement Grants -
remaining 3.125%

Young Ted

 

[FLEM]

I guess I'm against the different price ORV sticker. I can remember when 10.oo got you three years of ORV pass. but 16.25 is nothing for a year of riding, as for out of state guys, have you ever seen the prices for an out state hunting license its double the in state price or more. paying 16.25 is really pretty paltry when you consider what everyone has in their bikes, gear, gas, and hauling equipment.

 

[2TrakR]

I guess I'm against the different price ORV sticker.

Just asking for clarification - against the different price stickers and/or against the trail pass idea?

 

[FLEM]

I'm not following you on the trailpass idea. I think there should be a straight rate for in state out of state, I think thats more than fair considering out of state hunting and fishing licenses cost double or more.
tell me more about the trail pass, I've borrowed sleds the few times when I've snowmobiled in MI, so I'm not familar with the system.

 

[TCTrailrider]

Trail maps need clarification. The DNR maps have a solid red line for cycles and ATV's less than 50". If there are cycle only single track how do you know? The Caberfe trail head is the only cycle only sign that I have seen, and this is a Federal trail. I have heard that Long Lake, Evart, and Grand Traverse are cycle only. The maps for all 3 say 2 or 4 wheel, less that 50".
All 3 of those have widened up from quad use. We get mad at the quad riders but how do they know if its cycle only?