Madien Voyage Plus Some Questions

duncanstives

Member
Sep 11, 2009
89
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So... I got the KDX and took it on its madien voyage yesterday. Logged just shy of 50 miles in 9+ hours... It was a blast in a wierd sort of way.
It was just two of us... Myself and my friend on a kodiak 400 4 wheeler (small utility 4x4). We started out on some easy trails (the idea being that if some mechanical problems manifested themselfs I would have a chance of bringing a truck back to get it). The "trail" there was basically a gravel road with a few creek crossings but it was fun and we covered a lot of ground:
284762_10150336455525491_742425490_10033594_851567_n.jpg

After awhile I decided a breakdown was not imminent so we left the easier trails and decided to head for a local cave some distance in called townsend cave. I had been there in the buggy once and on foot twice (although it is a pretty good hike)... We were pretty far from there and not in a hurry so we took the senic route:
198811_10150336457345491_742425490_10033609_4711737_n.jpg

The trail here was a narrow twisty trail riding on a ridge top... In places the trail was touching the edge of a 100ft+ drop... It was an AWESOME trail... Sadly it (or at least our ability to travel it legally) came to a sudden end:
284381_10150336233945491_742425490_10031031_3314007_n.jpg

The picture doesn't show it but the bridge crosses a very narrow VERY deep chasm of dizzying heights... It also didn't look terribly sturdy. Who owned it and why they went though the trouble of building a bidge like this in an area 10 miles from a real road I have no idea. But it was pretty cool.
Eventually (after backtracking a few miles) we found our way to the trail to townsend cave. It was not bad at first:
284980_10150336471340491_742425490_10033829_1888663_n.jpg

Soon however it turned into a steeping pool of misery where (as a redneck who met us on the trail warned) "a man goes in there he might never come out". The area to which I am refering is a valley into which the trail decends and then breaks up into hundreds of little branches all twisting and turning though dense weeds 8ft high. The most notable characteristic of the trail is MUD... Mud so slippery that even though the area is not hilly (its the bottom of a valley) it is litterally impossible to walk... The little paths are rutted and pretty much all one continious pit of mud anywhere from a foot to bottomless (at least as far as I can tell... the longest stick I could find was about 6 feet and would not touch the bottom in places)... The whole area was probably not more than a 1/4 mile if that but it seemed like an eternity... We inched though 5-1-ft at a time... I could not stay on the bike for more than a couple feet ot save my life and the 4 wheeler was mired constantly... We dragged it though inch by agonizing inch with the winch (where possible... There were not many things to anchor to) and occasional WOT spurts of 10-20ft. We quickly exausted our supplies of water and I was feeling dizzy and could hardly muster up the energy to move let alone keep picking up and kick starting the bike. The place was thick with insects... Sweat bees, horseflies and gnats so thick they formed a cloud in the air. Just when I thought we'd never make it I saw the exit... A steep 15 foot climb back to higher ground. I made a break for the hill plowing though the last mud pit in sheer desperation (turned out to be about 3ft deep but very short so I made it though on momentum)... I rocketed up the hill which took an immediate hard right which I semi missed landing in some bushes... The bike was held up by the bushes and I basically collapsed off in and lay in the bushes for about 15 minutes before I went back and helped the 4 wheeler though the last bit.
No pics of this area... No cell coverage combined with the distance to the road and our exaustion and I was genuinely worried about making it out at all let alone with the vehicles... Way beyond thinking to take some pics at that point.
The rest of the trail was ok exept that being dehydrated and exausted made it hard to take... I ran into a pipe that erosion had uncovered (old oil drilling area) and wasnt thinking fast enough to avoid it... I wedged the bike tire under it and my friend followed and high centered the 4 wheeler on it. I was laughing in sheer frustration... Stymied by a crappy little pipe less than a half mile from the cave (and the fresh, cold drinkable water that can be found inside it):
281924_10150336239155491_742425490_10031081_5802390_n.jpg

(continued in comments)
 

duncanstives

Member
Sep 11, 2009
89
0
The same area:
224401_10150336242430491_742425490_10031113_1920762_n.jpg

We FINALLY made it... You can drive up into the cave but we were too beat ot bother... The KDX and the 4 wheeler rest together:
281832_10150336241060491_742425490_10031100_3525649_n.jpg

I went in the cave and drank almost 64 onces before lying in the water to cool off. It did not take long to cool down because the temp in the cave is 56 degrees year round... After a couple of minutes of lying in the underground stream I was freezing... Forutnately I warmed up really quick once I got outside... LOL.
The rest of the trip was pretty uneventful (comparitively speaking)... We went out the other way which was even harder but had plenty of bypasses... We took overy one of them.
224489_10150336244405491_742425490_10031154_8258217_n.jpg

It was however a LONG way back... By the time we got back to the truck it was long dark... Well after 10. I was just glad the light on the KDX turned out to work :)
Not really any pics of that part of the trip... Just steady riding...
 

duncanstives

Member
Sep 11, 2009
89
0
So... Now for a couple of questions... After a definite trail by fire the bike worked pretty well but did have one minor issue:
During the second half of the trip it started to lose power and eventually stalled... It started right back up but was still very weak and would threaten to stall when you twisted the throttle. After a few minutes it went away and seemed to be working fine. After that every time I stopped it would act up for a couple minutes and then recover... Occationally the problem would develop on its own (not right after starting) but I'd baby it for minute and it would be fine.... Clogged air filter maybe? Something else?

Also... Another question:
My bike appears to have a radiator... WTH? I thought these things were air cooled?
Heres a pic:
284704_10150336452845491_742425490_10033555_2016980_n.jpg

The other side has an identical radiator looking thing but this one has what appears to be a pressure cap that says "do not open when hot".
My front sproket teeth look to be angled slightly back... I'd hate to have this fail on the trail. Is this normal or should I replace it?
282400_10150336439755491_742425490_10033384_5376391_n.jpg

Finally:
This sounds dumb but... How the heck do I get the seat off and get at the air filter? Don't bikes normally have a little lever to open the seat?
Im gonna stop by the dealer tomorrow and pick up anythign I need.
 

sr5bidder

Member
Oct 27, 2008
1,463
0
the seat is bolted on ...there is a hole in the upper side cover that the bolts for the seat reside in..
yes those are radiators.
your problems with the stalling are or may be caused by mud packed into the carburator vent lines ..the ends of these lines are located by the swing arm in front of the rear tire, I have cut notches in mine to reduce the plugging by mud effect.

Also you may have been overheating a bit due to the slow going

from the looks of the sprocket and chain you are due for replacements ( that master link clip looks a bit thin)

it would be best to tear down the bike and check all the bearings and regrease anyhow

try to shake your wheel side to side and check the bearings too

Glad you made it out..like me, you can thank your KDX for that...many other bikes are much harder to control/ handle in tricky stuff
 

duncanstives

Member
Sep 11, 2009
89
0
Thanks!
So my bike IS liquid cooled? It certainly appears to have a radiator and water pump... When did the KDX stop being air cooled? Also I put 2 stroke oil in designed for air cooled engines... Will this cause a problem? Did not seem to be overheating (at nothing boiling in the newly discovered radiator).

Thanks for the tip on the chain and sprocket... I will pick up new ones at the dealer tomorrow.

I noticed the vents hanging down from the carb but they appear to be clear... Any other ideas on the hesitating/stalling?

Also: When you say tear down what do you mean? I am thinking about removing the back wheel and repacking or replacing the bearings... They got a lot of mud in them.
 

SS109

Member
Jul 27, 2009
310
0
duncanstives said:
So my bike IS liquid cooled? It certainly appears to have a radiator and water pump... When did the KDX stop being air cooled?
They became liquid cooled starting in 1989.

duncanstives said:
Also I put 2 stroke oil in designed for air cooled engines... Will this cause a problem?
Probably not a problem but it would be a good idea to stick with a quality name brand two stroke oil like Maxima, Bel Ray, Yamalube, etc. Your bike has power valves (KIPS) and they stay cleaner with a quality oil.

duncanstives said:
Did not seem to be overheating (at nothing boiling in the newly discovered radiator).
Your engine could still have been running hot even though it didn't boil over. Considering the look of that sprocket and chain, it would probably be a good idea to put a fresh 50/50 mix of antifreeze/distilled water in it. Make sure to open the plug on the left radiator when filling it or you will not get a complete fill.

duncanstives said:
I noticed the vents hanging down from the carb but they appear to be clear... Any other ideas on the hesitating/stalling?
Again, if your engine temps are getting up there it can cause the symptoms you are describing.

duncanstives said:
Also: When you say tear down what do you mean? I am thinking about removing the back wheel and repacking or replacing the bearings... They got a lot of mud in them.
That is what he is talking about. Disassemble, clean, and repack with grease all chassis bearings. Wheels, steering, swing arm, and whatever else that takes grease.
 

duncanstives

Member
Sep 11, 2009
89
0
So I jumped the gun and ordered a front sprocket and replacement front brake lever (mine is broken) from rockymountainatvmc while I was at work BEFORE checking and realizing I did in fact need both front and rear wheel bearings. Fortunately I had not yet ordered a chain because I found an o ring chain cheaper on amazon so I will just add the bearings to my amazon order... As far as bearings go amazon seems to have "all balls" and "pivot works". Which is better? I know they're both cheap but my bike was a cheap bike and it's gonna get cheap parts at least until I get a little more involved in the hobby.

Also: anyone have recommendations for a rear luggage rack type thing that fits the cheap theme and is not huge? I'd like to be able to carry a tiny bag of the most important tools, my phone (also my camera and gps) Ina small waterproof box and two 32 of bottles of water or Gatorade... I saw a few on rockymountainatvmc but they were expensive and way bulkier than I was looking for.
 

glad2ride

Member
Jul 4, 2005
1,071
1
WOW! What a trip!

Replace all three at the same time - front sprocket, rear sprocket and chain

I prefer PivotWorks over All Balls.

DO take the seat off and check the air filter. Don't clean it in gasoline. Look around and you will find plenty of message threads on proper air filter care.

Good luck with the KDX.
 

mudpack

Member
Nov 13, 2008
637
0
duncanstives said:
anyone have recommendations for a rear luggage rack type thing that fits the cheap theme and is not huge?
My advice to you would be to forego the "luggage rack" and use a backpack to carry your gear. There are several very good reasons for this (plus one or two against), and if you want those reasons I will be happy to go into it. In the meantime, I sincerely believe you would be much happier using the pack rather than the rack.
 

duncanstives

Member
Sep 11, 2009
89
0
glad2ride said:
WOW! What a trip!

Except for the heat exhaustion and many insect bites it was awesome... Even the miserable parts seem fun looking back on it... I think I should have my head examined.
One lesson for next time: take how much water I THINK I'll need and triple it. Lol

Replace all three at the same time - front sprocket, rear sprocket and chain

The back one looks fine... Do they have to be replace together (sort of like bearings and races)?

I prefer PivotWorks over All Balls.

Thanks... Ill get pivot works.

DO take the seat off and check the air filter. Don't clean it in gasoline. Look around and you will find plenty of message threads on proper air filter care.

Good luck with the KDX.

Thanks... I once tried cleaning a k&n filter on my jeep with gas.... Put it back together before it was dry enough (apparently) and it backfired though the carb and started the air filter on fire! Lol
 

duncanstives

Member
Sep 11, 2009
89
0
mudpack said:
My advice to you would be to forego the "luggage rack" and use a backpack to carry your gear. There are several very good reasons for this (plus one or two against), and if you want those reasons I will be happy to go into it. In the meantime, I sincerely believe you would be much happier using the pack rather than the rack.

I'll take the advice of an expirienced rider (especially when it's cheaper and easier than what I was planning... Lol) but I am curious... Wouldn't the backpack make your center of gravity higher and be more fatiguing to get into frequently?
 

sr5bidder

Member
Oct 27, 2008
1,463
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duncanstives said:
I'll take the advice of an expirienced rider (especially when it's cheaper and easier than what I was planning... Lol) but I am curious... Wouldn't the backpack make your center of gravity higher and be more fatiguing to get into frequently?


I ride with a camel back I got at cycle gear and love it..it wont hold all the water you would have needed that day but it holds enough for about 3hrs if everything goes well.

I put in 1/2 roll of toilet paper a multi-tool that has a flat, pillips, allen wrench, and 8,10,12 mm sockets a 0-30psi pressure guage, some lens wipes, and a small rag and spark plug and spark wrench

I really need to find a stuby 21mm for the spark plug.

truth is once you go through your kdx and freshen it up you will not need any tools on the trail unless you are riding with KTM's but thats another story!!
 

sr5bidder

Member
Oct 27, 2008
1,463
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duncanstives said:
So I jumped the gun and ordered a front sprocket and replacement front brake lever (mine is broken) from rockymountainatvmc while I was at work BEFORE checking and realizing I did in fact need both front and rear wheel bearings. Fortunately I had not yet ordered a chain because I found an o ring chain cheaper on amazon so I will just add the bearings to my amazon order... As far as bearings go amazon seems to have "all balls" and "pivot works". Which is better? I know they're both cheap but my bike was a cheap bike and it's gonna get cheap parts at least until I get a little more involved in the hobby.

.


there is no difference most times in bearings it just what sticker you want on your bike, I get my bearings at Bearings and Drives

I think last time I got them it was like 16 bucks for (2) 6202-rs for the front and (2) 6004-rs bearings for the back.

the trick is to carfully pop the seals off the bearing with a razor blade and pack the bearings with the green waterproof grease.. thay are so cheap that I normally reuse the seals.


on the chain I would advise you to go with a good non o-ring than a cheap o-ring chain. I run a 13/48 combo with the tall d83 trials tire and it suits me well.
 

dirt bike dave

Sponsoring Member
May 3, 2000
5,349
3
Just a word on wheel bearings - If yours are original and the bike has been neglected, the old bearings can be difficult to remove from the hub, even if you heat the hub with a torch and bring out your biggest BFH.

Some of the best money I ever spent was paying a shop to press the bearings out on my KDX250. Wish I'd taken it to the shop first, instead of going after spending hours trying to drive those buggers out.

As for water and tools, a camelback for hydration and a fanny pack for tools, maps and food work great. IMO, any kind of rear fender bag or some kind of rack are a pain when you are tired and need to throw your leg over the seat. They can also smack you in the butt when you don't expect it.

Oh - and wear your chest protector over the camel back. Helps keep the camelback from moving around so much.
 

duncanstives

Member
Sep 11, 2009
89
0
dirt bike dave said:
Just a word on wheel bearings - If yours are original and the bike has been neglected, the old bearings can be difficult to remove from the hub, even if you heat the hub with a torch and bring out your biggest BFH.

Some of the best money I ever spent was paying a shop to press the bearings out on my KDX250. Wish I'd taken it to the shop first, instead of going after spending hours trying to drive those buggers out.

As for water and tools, a camelback for hydration and a fanny pack for tools, maps and food work great. IMO, any kind of rear fender bag or some kind of rack are a pain when you are tired and need to throw your leg over the seat. They can also smack you in the butt when you don't expect it.

Oh - and wear your chest protector over the camel back. Helps keep the camelback from moving around so much.

Got a bunch of presses and fittings to remove different bearings and things at work. I pressed out my u-joints on my Dana 60 at work... One of them took nearly 30 tons.
 

duncanstives

Member
Sep 11, 2009
89
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So... Parts havn't arrived (first set arrives tomorrow) but I decided to tool around a bit and figure out this issue I'm having with loss of power.
Not overheating (the bike did it tonight as soon as I started it after sitting all night).
Not plugged carb vents (they are clear)
That left air filter "something else". I took the seat off and checked the filter. Its pretty terrible I know (in fact I wheeled the bike back to its shed rather than put this POS back in and risk it sucking in some decaying foam by starting it) but based on the pic is it actually bad enough to cause power loss at WOT or close to WOT or should I be chasing another issue?
I blew though it and air does pass though but I do not have a good feel for how much restriction is too much and how much volume of air actually goes through.
If I am looking for another issue than what should I be looking for? I know some carb have mutiple jets that kick in at different times... On plugged maybe?
BTW: Another potential clue for the air filter or other air restriction idea: I noticed a tiny bit of brown liquid on the edge of the exaust looked and smelled like unburnt gas mixed with partially burnt two stroke oil and when the power loss occured the bike seems like it smokes more than it does at other times.

262536_10150339517455491_742425490_10068398_4011763_n.jpg
 

motopsycho87

Member
Dec 26, 2010
152
2
Change spark plug and HT lead
Check coil (ignition and stator ignition)
Clean out carb
Replace air filter
Check seals on exhaust and inlet tract
Check thermostat (if its not opening it can lead to overheating)

I would do that 1st then report back if no better
 

sr5bidder

Member
Oct 27, 2008
1,463
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yes replace the plug we have recently learned our spark plug lesson in another thread ...they are $1.99
at the auto parts store

there are holes in the back side of the carburator that lead to the jet circuits that may have become pluged with decay from that filter..

Another idea is the kips system may be broken or stuck

OK based on the pics you sent in you are very lucky your maiden voyage was not the final destination for you or your bike...but don't get upset, just sort it out and give her a bit of love and she'll give back 10 fold!!
 

EYY

Member
May 22, 2010
159
1
Changing the oil, sparkplug and coolant, as well as cleaning your kips, airfilter and carb will get you heading in the right direction as far as the motor goes.

As others have mentioned already, those linkage and swingarm bearings are often overlooked when maintainance is carried out.. that is, if it has been carried out at all. With a press and tools, the bearings are reasonably easy to replace. As far as Allballs vs Pivotworks, both are major brands and you'll be just has happy with one than as with the other, but personally I've always used Allballs and have been quite happy. Just remember to clean and grease them all regularly.

A partially blocked jet may lead to a lean condition and will make for hard starting and rough idling and backfiring/popping etc. as well as leading to overheating.

good luck!
 

duncanstives

Member
Sep 11, 2009
89
0
Thanks for all the advice everyone. I have also been doing some google searching on this bike. Heres a list of what I've checked and what I still have to check.
Lights (front ok, going to have to troubleshoot the back)
Stem bearings (ok... No noticeable play with the front wheel off the ground)
Front wheel bearings: in need of replacement. Parts on order.
Swingarm bearings: about 2mm of side to side movement at the end of the swingarm. 3-4mm of movement is considered "time to replace" so I'm gonna wait a bit on this one.
Rear wheel bearings: in need of replacement. Parts on order.
Front sprocket: in need of replacment. Parts here already.
Chain: on order
Rear sprocket: looked fine... I'm gonna leave it for now
Air filter: shot. Parts on order
Spark plug: have not checked but replacement is on order
Fork seals: ok no evidence of leaking
Rear shock seals: ok... No evidence of peeling shock piston plating.
Carb: have not checked yet... Still have to figure out how to take it off.
Controls: front brake lever broken (new one awaiting install) but brake itself works great, throttle had a bit more play then I like. Planning to adjust it. Clutch ok. Back brake does not seem to work very well... Need to look into that.

Anything else should be on the list?
 

duncanstives

Member
Sep 11, 2009
89
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Oh yeah... One other thing that should be on there: compression. Is it ok the check a two stroke with a regular checker (the pressure gauge that goes where the spark plug normally goes)? I don't see any reason why not but maybe I'm missing something??
Also anyone know what it should read?
 

sr5bidder

Member
Oct 27, 2008
1,463
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duncanstives said:
Thanks for all the advice everyone. I have also been doing some google searching on this bike. Heres a list of what I've checked and what I still have to check.
Lights (front ok, going to have to troubleshoot the back)
Stem bearings (ok... No noticeable play with the front wheel off the ground)
Front wheel bearings: in need of replacement. Parts on order.
Swingarm bearings: about 2mm of side to side movement at the end of the swingarm. 3-4mm of movement is considered "time to replace" so I'm gonna wait a bit on this one.
Rear wheel bearings: in need of replacement. Parts on order.
Front sprocket: in need of replacment. Parts here already.
Chain: on order
Rear sprocket: looked fine... I'm gonna leave it for now
Air filter: shot. Parts on order
Spark plug: have not checked but replacement is on order
Fork seals: ok no evidence of leaking
Rear shock seals: ok... No evidence of peeling shock piston plating.
Carb: have not checked yet... Still have to figure out how to take it off.
Controls: front brake lever broken (new one awaiting install) but brake itself works great, throttle had a bit more play then I like. Planning to adjust it. Clutch ok. Back brake does not seem to work very well... Need to look into that.

Anything else should be on the list?


check the clutch cable for fraying and lube it,
check and lube throttle cable,
check under the stator cover for oil leakageand grab the flywheel and check for main bearing play
check and lube your odometer cable,
check shifter shaft seal for leakage
check output shaft seal for leakage
remove swing arm linkage, clean inspect and repack bearings, you really shoul break down the entire rear swing arm and do the same
check and tighten front and rear spokes (start at tube fill valve and tighten 1/4 turn at a revolution untill you get a nice sharp note when banging on them with a spoke wrench, skip the ones that already produce this note)
change gear box oil (alot of us use ford type F auto trans fluid)
check petcock valve for leakage
check fuel cap for clean ventalation
need more I can help, but this ought to keep you busy for a while :)




check
 

sr5bidder

Member
Oct 27, 2008
1,463
0
duncanstives said:
Oh yeah... One other thing that should be on there: compression. Is it ok the check a two stroke with a regular checker (the pressure gauge that goes where the spark plug normally goes)? I don't see any reason why not but maybe I'm missing something??
Also anyone know what it should read?


yes as long as you have the thread in kind that matches you spark plug

PS. if I am remembering right you are begining to cotradict yourself...I may be mixed up though
 

EYY

Member
May 22, 2010
159
1
imho, it isn't even worth checking the compression. You really should take the top end off to clean the powervalves and make sure they aren't damaged/timed incorrectly etc. You should also check the condition of the cylinder plating if you do decide to remove the top end, and replace the piston if the previous owner didn't tell you any maintainance history
 
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