I know this doesnt really go along with the whole topic at hand but I just do not understand the whole hype with 4 strokes all of a sudden, I mean several years ago if you brought a 4-stroke to the track you'd probably get laughed off. Now I have been out of the moto scene for awhile and am just now getting back in it but, of the few tracks I have been to recently everyone is running 4 strokes. I understand that 4 strokes are more economical as far as pollution but to me its not the same. Mfgs still produce 2 strokes so why the drastic change in people buying them?
Are we killing our own sport?
- Thread starter Jackpiner57
- Start date
I skimed thru most of this topic, I dont have time to read everything here, I do agree that noise is an issue and the bikes could probably be quieter.
I wanted to add one thing though- What are the loudest and most common bike you come across on a daily basis? Well for me and many others its not even a dirt bike, not even made to be ridden in obscure, lonely areas, but it is in-fact a Harley. They are everywhere, they have no sound limit(by law, here in my state anyway)and can be legally street-driven and are wayy louder than any off-road bike I have ever heard.
When the Harleys start to quiet down, so they are not blasting my ear drums out at a light when taking off when my windows are down, maybe Ill consider it too on my OFF-ROAD bike.
I wanted to add one thing though- What are the loudest and most common bike you come across on a daily basis? Well for me and many others its not even a dirt bike, not even made to be ridden in obscure, lonely areas, but it is in-fact a Harley. They are everywhere, they have no sound limit(by law, here in my state anyway)and can be legally street-driven and are wayy louder than any off-road bike I have ever heard.
When the Harleys start to quiet down, so they are not blasting my ear drums out at a light when taking off when my windows are down, maybe Ill consider it too on my OFF-ROAD bike.
2-Strokes 4-ever
~SPONSOR~
However, a Harley rides by, and is gone. When on the trail or track, we WILL bother others because we are often (many of us) in the same area all day. So if the Harley rider is offensive... then we have a right to be too?
2-Strokes 4-ever said:
That is an assumption that I would be riding my "loud" bike in one spot all day.. and not "moving on" down the road.. And you can hear a loud Harley from a whole lot further away, but thats not what my point was, I was only trying to say that these are street legal vehicles that everyone encounters daily and yet they have NO noise limitations. Even my car cant be that loud in my state. Also, Harleys tend to travel in packs(sometimes just 2-3, but sometimes many more!) as well, if youve never seen such, then I throw my hands up now and give up!
If riding trails and you dont start out away from houses then you should at some time be away from them, unless the "trail" is around your own house.. that is just simple common sense, I learned that at like 12 after getting salt rock shot at me for riding near someones home all day. When I was real young a kid was riding his bike up and down a road in a desert campground(Mobiland) we used to go to alot, a man came out and asked the boy if he had another sparkplug, the boy replied "no" and the man used a cresent wrench to break off the tip of the plug that was in the running engine.
When I think of trails I think more of fire-roads that are out in the middle of nowhere, if your riding near a large housing area thats not exactly the smartest thing in the first place, and in doing so your "being" exactly what those who dont ride bikes or own them dont want to hear or see..
Track: I think its obvious that a Track should be out and away from Homes, this really is a no brainer. If the land owner has homes nearby he shouldnt have built a track there(more common sense).
I dont think anyone should have the "right" to be offensive, but I sure would appreciate equal restrictions on noise. And it is no secret that Harley bikes can be very offensive, and I dont think I even need to go into all that... One could say since they have no limitation on noise that they indeed do have the right to be offensive! Depends on how ya wanna look at it I guess..
I know the bikes are loud and I understand the effect that has overall, and I guess what gets me is that our sport can be "picked on" while a Harley rider can go where he/she wants in areas where population is thick and be as loud as they wish.
edit: If you want quiet I could recommend a drz110, mine is about as loud as a lawnmower, when I take it out from my garage to the hills near my home my wife doesnt even hear me come or go. I dont ride my RM around my home at all, even though it would be totally legal for me to do so here, I dont because of how loud it is.
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PlowboysGhost
Member
- Nov 19, 2007
- 18
- 0
I, too, have been out of the racing scene for awhile and am scatching my head at the near universal change to 4-strokes now that I'm paying attention again. It seems a process of regression. Then again I don't personally like 4-stroke power any more than I like loud bikes or the idea of $1000+ top-end rebuilds, so just label me a dinosaur:)
I guess I have nothing new to add so I'll just go ride my KX(with quiet spark arrestor Answer silencer) till dark, then log in to "Two Stroke Militia" when I get back with the aroma of racing castor still in my head.
I guess I have nothing new to add so I'll just go ride my KX(with quiet spark arrestor Answer silencer) till dark, then log in to "Two Stroke Militia" when I get back with the aroma of racing castor still in my head.
Yeah and asshats should look for comonality in the OHV community.2-Strokes 4-ever said:
Most "intrest groups" lump quads and dirtbikes together...
It is only eletist snobs that separate the 2 and think they are different or better.
Just like skiers bitching about snowboarders ruining the mountian.
2 stroke or four stroke...your motor is no different than any ATV riders...
Are the 2-wheelers not interested in keeping "their" sport...You will need all OHV groups speaking as one....and the way you speak does not foster this at all...
All motor sports need to work together.
It must suck to have to ride the same track or trail outside of town or in an industrial park. Boring .....I can ride all day without seeing or bothering anyone...Not on the same trail twice.Noise is no issue here as there is no population to hear it.
I am still willing to help all ohv keep the sport...even if it has NO bearing on my family,friends or aquaintance...Some day I might want to hit some "big name" dunes and would love to b e able to ride them on MX or quad...Not just view the dunes because the are closed to riding.
An us VS them mentality does no good . You can't have infighting and still overcome the "ANTI-FUN" interest groups.
I'll prob. get flamed for this...but I wouldn't expect any less from some posters. :yell:
yesss, i am a young lad myself, and people were fine with us riding around, even encouraged in my rural town until a couple months agoe when my friend just bought a new pipe for his crf450, loudest thing ever, and now the people we used to get compliments from are yelling at us, ppl, lets be more like "wolf" here and respect teh people ears,. And personally i like the 2 strokes, pinger for life!
Dirty Dave
Sponsoring Member
That was a great article. I am embarrassed that I just found it. Noise has been an issue with me for along time. I ride Hollister hills alot and a friend of mine lives very near park. He said when he first moved in several years ago, he could only hear the park when the wind was blowing from the south. Now that the attendance has increased and the majority of bikes are 4 stroke he can hear the park every weekend and most mid-week days. I can tell you for a fact that noise has been a major factor in the delay to expansion of the park's boundaries. We as green/red sticker riders have owned several hundred acres of new riding area around the current fence line for several years but the locals have thrown up legal road blocks of any type they can think of to keep the trails from getting closer to their property. During Thanksgiving we camped near Elkins Flat. I figure about 30-40% of the bikes were red sticker and 50-60% of those had race pipes on. :| Nuff said... Thanks again for posting that article.
All I know is when I used to drive up the road to local track on Friday nights you couldn't really hear the bikes until you were almost at the gate. Now 1/2 mile down the road you can hear the roar of the 4 strokes. I wonder every time how long until local citizens have the track closed due to noise violations.
wake_rider
Member
- Feb 21, 2007
- 481
- 2
I run the FMF TurbineCore II silencer with a FMF Fatty pipe and it seems to be pretty good. I'll say that it is definitely WAY quieter than my two buddies kx250's that are both running full Pro Circuit systems on them.
I agree with the sound issue. All the time I'm aggravated with these kids on quad 450F's with big gun exhausts. Not just the noise, but the attitude of the people on them. They are the kind of people that ride w/o helmets, going the wrong direction down directional trails, drinking in the parking lots, and just causing issues. They all seem to have this "hick" mentality that they can do whatever they want and "F-U" to anyone who says otherwise. All the while, their children are sitting there watching and beginning to emulate their attitude and actions... It becomes an ongoing cycle. :|
I agree with the sound issue. All the time I'm aggravated with these kids on quad 450F's with big gun exhausts. Not just the noise, but the attitude of the people on them. They are the kind of people that ride w/o helmets, going the wrong direction down directional trails, drinking in the parking lots, and just causing issues. They all seem to have this "hick" mentality that they can do whatever they want and "F-U" to anyone who says otherwise. All the while, their children are sitting there watching and beginning to emulate their attitude and actions... It becomes an ongoing cycle. :|
2-Strokes 4-ever
~SPONSOR~
It seems (based on my experience) that once a quad customer signs on the dotted line his brains get sucked right out. The shame of it is, to the general public we're all grouped right in there as "ORV"ers).
wake_rider
Member
- Feb 21, 2007
- 481
- 2
Yeah. I know a good amount of responsible quad riders, but I know waayyy more that aren't. To ride a quad decently it just doesn't take the skill that a bike does. I'm not saying that pro riders aren't skilled, because they most definitely are, but you can take a quad out with no experience and over a weekend be able to keep up with the majority of the other riders. It's just not the same with bikes. There is a huge learning curve from one level to the next on bikes that you just don't have on a quad. Since that is the case, you see every Jim Bob jumping on a quad and immediately thinking they are a good rider, when in all actuality it's just a whole lot easier to keep up without experience when you are on a quad.
Now that I got way off subject, the problem is that you get these guys that just want to feel manly so they buy quads and put the loudest exhaust they possibly can in order to draw attention. These same people are the people that tear around the parking lots without helmets popping wheelies and run into someone and get someone hurt. They are also the same people that run reverse on directional trails because they don't know better and end up running head on into someone doing everything right (I can't tell you how many times this has happened to me, and EVERY SINGLE TIME it has been someone on a quad that was going the wrong way) then someone gets injured or killed. When that happens it causes a public uproar and our riding areas get shut down, again because of ignorance. What they don't realize is the harm that they are doing to the public perception of the sport and they are causing people that would normally have a neutral opinion about it into people that turn active in the push to shut it down in their area. When you call them out on it, they just don't care because they haven't been around the sport long enough to see how much we have lost due to ignorance amongst both the participants and the outsiders.
Now that I got way off subject, the problem is that you get these guys that just want to feel manly so they buy quads and put the loudest exhaust they possibly can in order to draw attention. These same people are the people that tear around the parking lots without helmets popping wheelies and run into someone and get someone hurt. They are also the same people that run reverse on directional trails because they don't know better and end up running head on into someone doing everything right (I can't tell you how many times this has happened to me, and EVERY SINGLE TIME it has been someone on a quad that was going the wrong way) then someone gets injured or killed. When that happens it causes a public uproar and our riding areas get shut down, again because of ignorance. What they don't realize is the harm that they are doing to the public perception of the sport and they are causing people that would normally have a neutral opinion about it into people that turn active in the push to shut it down in their area. When you call them out on it, they just don't care because they haven't been around the sport long enough to see how much we have lost due to ignorance amongst both the participants and the outsiders.
sonnysair6
Member
- Mar 1, 2008
- 10
- 0
Keep the Govt. Away from this
First of i Do NOT mind the Noise, but i can see why some people do, especially the ones that like to complain. I think something should be done about the noise, but if it is done it should be done by the bike companies and not the local governments or law enforcement. Look I forget who but a couple people on this thread were talking about getting the govt. involve and making new regulations, and making soundtests mandatory. Please stop promoting this BULL. Look if the state, and local governments, get involve in making new regulations on noise, we are just going to have to pay more dumb fees, that will more than likely be super high. Or we will have to modify our bikes to make them quieter which also cost money. Look Our sport is already EXPENSIVE enough as it is. I know some of you out there with toy haulers and HUGE RV's dont care, but speaking as a struggling college student that already invests a lot of money in this sport and just came back from ocotillo Wells and slept in the bed of his truck with two of his buddies, I cannot afford to modify or pay more stupid fee's, and fines. I think that these new regulations and requirements will further kill our sport because it would just make it more expensive, and some of the younger people like me wont be able to afford it. I already invest about 30%-50% of my monthly income in this sport, because i love it that much so NO MORE FEE's PLEASE.
P.s I ride a YZ250 so i am not a four stroke promoter, but i know that if the govt. gets involved, they would find a way to make me with a 2 stroke pay for the 4 stroke mistakes. SO once again something should be done, but done by the bike companies. If they produce quieter better performing bikes, eventually this need for loudness will fade away.
First of i Do NOT mind the Noise, but i can see why some people do, especially the ones that like to complain. I think something should be done about the noise, but if it is done it should be done by the bike companies and not the local governments or law enforcement. Look I forget who but a couple people on this thread were talking about getting the govt. involve and making new regulations, and making soundtests mandatory. Please stop promoting this BULL. Look if the state, and local governments, get involve in making new regulations on noise, we are just going to have to pay more dumb fees, that will more than likely be super high. Or we will have to modify our bikes to make them quieter which also cost money. Look Our sport is already EXPENSIVE enough as it is. I know some of you out there with toy haulers and HUGE RV's dont care, but speaking as a struggling college student that already invests a lot of money in this sport and just came back from ocotillo Wells and slept in the bed of his truck with two of his buddies, I cannot afford to modify or pay more stupid fee's, and fines. I think that these new regulations and requirements will further kill our sport because it would just make it more expensive, and some of the younger people like me wont be able to afford it. I already invest about 30%-50% of my monthly income in this sport, because i love it that much so NO MORE FEE's PLEASE.
P.s I ride a YZ250 so i am not a four stroke promoter, but i know that if the govt. gets involved, they would find a way to make me with a 2 stroke pay for the 4 stroke mistakes. SO once again something should be done, but done by the bike companies. If they produce quieter better performing bikes, eventually this need for loudness will fade away.
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JWW
LIFETIME SPONSOR
- Apr 13, 2000
- 2,529
- 2
Im not all that excited about the govt or local officials pushing policy but if they dont things will never change. I cant stand the loud bikes and really wish it was enforced more.
If someone can buy a bike for over 5k they shouldnt complain about another $150-400 for a quiet exhaust.
Look I probably sound like a jerk but I spent many years waiting to get back into the sport due to not having enough $$$$. If quiet bikes are required and you cant afford then find another hobby.
If someone can buy a bike for over 5k they shouldnt complain about another $150-400 for a quiet exhaust.
Look I probably sound like a jerk but I spent many years waiting to get back into the sport due to not having enough $$$$. If quiet bikes are required and you cant afford then find another hobby.
sonnysair6
Member
- Mar 1, 2008
- 10
- 0
THere you go, you just set the perfect example on how regulations and fines can kill this sport, you told me to find a new hobby, when i Absolutely love this sport, I go almost every week if i don't go to Glen Helen I go to the Ocotillo, I love this sport, so i am not just a monthly or every now and then rider with toy haulers and money, i already invest plenty of money riding every week and i am just saying more fee's will hurt the younger generation like me, oh and i did not buy a 5k bike, i bought a $2300 2005 YZ250.
WHy most of these people are worried about on this thread is that they are no longer going to be able to ride in their properties or the places closest to them. For example we us to ride a mile away from my buddies house in Riverside, but they are no longer allowed to ride there because as the years pass the houses started getting closer and closer, and people started to complain. Look if you really love this sport, you would not mind driving an hour to Glen Helen or 2 and a half to Ocotillo. STOP BEING LAZY..
WHy most of these people are worried about on this thread is that they are no longer going to be able to ride in their properties or the places closest to them. For example we us to ride a mile away from my buddies house in Riverside, but they are no longer allowed to ride there because as the years pass the houses started getting closer and closer, and people started to complain. Look if you really love this sport, you would not mind driving an hour to Glen Helen or 2 and a half to Ocotillo. STOP BEING LAZY..
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sonnysair6
Member
- Mar 1, 2008
- 10
- 0
"I cant stand the loud bikes and really wish it was enforced more."
-----Posted By JWW
P.S If you cannot stand the loud bikes, maybe you should find a new sport. This sport is naturally Loud.. Or Camp far away were the noise wont bug ya.
-----Posted By JWW
P.S If you cannot stand the loud bikes, maybe you should find a new sport. This sport is naturally Loud.. Or Camp far away were the noise wont bug ya.
JWW
LIFETIME SPONSOR
- Apr 13, 2000
- 2,529
- 2
sonnysair6 said:
I dont really want to get in another silly internet arguement but I just want to ask a question. No judgement or arguement.
Does it really not bother you when a bike rides by and its so loud it hurts your ears and you squint your eyes?
Again no judgement being made....just curious.
sonnysair6
Member
- Mar 1, 2008
- 10
- 0
Sorry about that, i did not meant that to sound as an argument.
To answer your question, and this is being completely honest it really does not bother me when a bike passes by me, and its super loud, I am not one of those people that think loudness is cool (like i said i have a YZ250), it's just that getting into this sport i knew its a loud and fast sport, and if some riders get their jollies by having super loud pipes, then so be it, they are having fun and who am I to stop them from having fun, cause in the end that's what this sport, hobby, or whatever you want to call it, is all about. Its about having fun.
To answer your question, and this is being completely honest it really does not bother me when a bike passes by me, and its super loud, I am not one of those people that think loudness is cool (like i said i have a YZ250), it's just that getting into this sport i knew its a loud and fast sport, and if some riders get their jollies by having super loud pipes, then so be it, they are having fun and who am I to stop them from having fun, cause in the end that's what this sport, hobby, or whatever you want to call it, is all about. Its about having fun.
2-Strokes 4-ever
~SPONSOR~
Are the governments decisions really logical? Who will it take to preserve our sport?
LEllis7motox
Member
- Jan 28, 2008
- 326
- 0
:think: :think:
Ol'89r
LIFETIME SPONSOR
- Jan 27, 2000
- 6,961
- 45
sonnysair6 said:
It's not you we have to worry about. Most of us don't mind a little noise but the general public hates it. Those are the people we have to worry about.
You say you used to ride by your buddys house in Riverside County. Why do you think you can't ride there anymore? Most likely because of the noise. Did you bother to go to any of the meetings in Riverside when they were trying to shut us down? Or were you too LAZY. If you did go to any of those meetings then you would know how big of an issue noise is. Have you ever gone to a BLM meeting? I know Jeff (JWW) has. Have you ever written a letter or sent an email to your political representives? Have you ever asked you local dealer why they are not involved with the land closure issues? Did you know they are trying to shut down about half of Occotillo Wells? Did you know most of the places we used to ride in the California desert are now closed to off roaders and they are working on closing the rest?
If you have never done any of these things then, maybe you should find a new sport because guys like you are destroying it for the rest of us. It's all about fun. Have your fun until you get kicked out and then go somewhere else until you get kicked out and soon there will be no place left to go.
Noise it a big thing but, our lack of involvement and outright arrogance is the biggest issue. We have the ability to flood the council chambers with people on our side but nobody shows up. People will drive all the way out to Occotillo to ride but won't take the time to go to a meeting ten miles away to insure the land stays open. Who is being lazy here? We will spend hours on the net arguing with each other about who is to blame but won't spend a few minutes to write a letter or send an email to our lawmakers.
If we don't police our own the government will.
sonnysair6
Member
- Mar 1, 2008
- 10
- 0
RESPONSE TO Ol'89r
Your calling me LAZY
First off I am not From Riverside, I us to go ride there with a buddy. I live in Long beach, Far away from any dirt place, So when I go ride it takes at least an hour drive to get there. But i guess you were to lazy to read my other comment also. WHat i said for lazy people who don't bother to read the whole thread.
WHat it comes down to is LAZYNESS by people that us to ride 10 minutes away from their house and now have to go 30 minutes away to ride. If your really committed to this sport you'll drive the 30 minutes or 2 hours it takes to get to a riding spot. People are bitching that they couln't ride 5 minutes away from their house anymore, dude STOP BEING LAZY and if you really want to ride go to Ocotillo, Mojave, or the GLEN HELEN which is really like 30 minutes from RIverside. FOR ME its at least a 1 hour 15 min drive to get to my nearest riding spot which is Glen Helen, but i usually go to Ocotillo which is 2 1/2 hours, so im guessing i am not LAZY, I really love this sport, and if you can't drive an hour or two to get to a riding spot, then Maybe you should not be in this sport.
THIS IS WHAT I MEANT Ol'89r. NEXT time don't be lazy and read the whole thread before you post a response.
P.s Thanks for miss quoting me, If you would have read the whole thread, you would have seen that JWW specifically asked me if the noise bothered me, and i gave him my honest answer, and i know its not dirt bike riders that the noise bugs, but the people that don't ride, but i guess i had to say this again cause you were to lazy to read the first sentences in my first post.
Your calling me LAZY
First off I am not From Riverside, I us to go ride there with a buddy. I live in Long beach, Far away from any dirt place, So when I go ride it takes at least an hour drive to get there. But i guess you were to lazy to read my other comment also. WHat i said for lazy people who don't bother to read the whole thread.
WHat it comes down to is LAZYNESS by people that us to ride 10 minutes away from their house and now have to go 30 minutes away to ride. If your really committed to this sport you'll drive the 30 minutes or 2 hours it takes to get to a riding spot. People are bitching that they couln't ride 5 minutes away from their house anymore, dude STOP BEING LAZY and if you really want to ride go to Ocotillo, Mojave, or the GLEN HELEN which is really like 30 minutes from RIverside. FOR ME its at least a 1 hour 15 min drive to get to my nearest riding spot which is Glen Helen, but i usually go to Ocotillo which is 2 1/2 hours, so im guessing i am not LAZY, I really love this sport, and if you can't drive an hour or two to get to a riding spot, then Maybe you should not be in this sport.
THIS IS WHAT I MEANT Ol'89r. NEXT time don't be lazy and read the whole thread before you post a response.
P.s Thanks for miss quoting me, If you would have read the whole thread, you would have seen that JWW specifically asked me if the noise bothered me, and i gave him my honest answer, and i know its not dirt bike riders that the noise bugs, but the people that don't ride, but i guess i had to say this again cause you were to lazy to read the first sentences in my first post.
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