Jap Woods 250

[dirt bike dave]

Just wait a couple of years and the ktm fad will die just as the kdx fad did. Then they will be a dime a dozen. I've seen this irrational brand exuberance in everything from snowmobiles to dirt bikes, snow skis to fishing gear and basket ball shoes to golf clubs. If you are a pro quality rider you probably need the latest and greatest, otherwise quit posing and ride! Long live the kdx, still a great bang for the buck.

Biased much?

Yep, if you are on a strict budget, the KDX is a great bang for the buck.

But you are kidding yourself if you think a mid '90s technology KDX has the quality and performance of a current KTM. Sure, some guys don't know how to ride or set-up their KTM, and a better rider on a KDX will smoke them. But there are plenty of guys who are not 'pro quality' that appreciate a well built, high performance machine.

There are thousands of riders who have moved on from the KDX (the first of my three KDXs was a brand new '84) after years of ownership. Take a poll of those former KDX riders and you will find the bikes they moved onto have more power and better suspension. Yes, often times that additional power is just as user friendly, and the suspension is better in the tight and nasty stuff, too. And their newer bikes are just as reliable and have better quality parts, such as a decent chain guides, hydraulic clutches, etc...

If companies dedicated to producing high quality dirt bikes are 'fads', we need more fads like that!

 

[ridejunky]

Dave, I'm not disputing what your saying, but tech wise the only thing glaringly dated on the kdx is the front forks. Juice clutches are nice and so are recluse. I can get on a CRF 450 and marvel at its technology and sophistication but on a long trail ride I'll still go with what I brought, my power band is exactly where I want it. bigger radiators however, would be nice.

 

[DougRoost]

I guess i should have headed this post except KTM.

Or something other than Best Woods 250. Whatever...I'm tired of this ranting thread. :uh:

And regarding the poster that said their resale value is too high, that's supposed to be a bad thing? I agree a YZ250 is a great bike, but guys I know who've bought them and modded them couldn't get anything for them when it was time for a new bike, so they ended up parting out a great bike just to recoup some of their cash.

 

[jason33]

what about a honda-450x-? theres so much you could do to a bike now days- there really nice machines what ever you choose-

 

[kingsxjt]

Adam you said

Revalve and spring for $300? Holy crap, tell me where!

I meant to say reshim and respring, not revalve. So I think $300ish will do it. The reason I don't keep the KDX is funds. I'd love to have multiple bikes but with a wife and 3 kids I can only afford one at a time. Not to mention the kids' bikes.
Dave you said

But you are kidding yourself if you think a mid '90s technology KDX has the quality and performance of a current KTM. Sure, some guys don't know how to ride or set-up their KTM, and a better rider on a KDX will smoke them.

I couldn't agree more. It's the rider that counts, it's not like my buddy on his YZ was about to run all over me because of his bike. I just liked the bottom end, low profile tank, and of course the USD forks. Looks like everyone likes the KTM's but I'm not convinced they are worth the extra coin. I am leaning towards 00-04 Jap bikes in the 2 stroke 250cc range.

 

[kingsxjt]

I need helping finding the best Jap 250 to get for woods riding. I'm trying to get info on year model and make (pro's and con's). I am leaning toward the YZ250. I will be putting a FWW on it and having the suspension resprung and reshimmed. I like the bottom end my buddies 00 YZ has and have heard others like the CR's don't have much in that department. I know there is a wealth of Knowledge here so any help would be appreciated. I've got 3yrs. experience on 01 KDX 200. Thanks in advance, Josh

 

[2 strokes for life]

Well this is what i think of each bike

KX250, has great bottom end, smoth suspesion, and turns quick, The bad, it lacks some topend, and hits really hard in the mid of the power.

CR250, great topend, awsome suspesion, and fun to ride fast. The bad, has almost no bottom end power, like riding a 125 you need to kepp up your RPM, and hits like the old bikes did.

RM250, has awsome bottom, turns like no other, and has a smoth powerband. The bad, well i love the bike so, thats it.

YZ250, it is like the RM and has a tad bit more bottom end. The bad part is i can not afford one.

This gose for the 2005 modles of each bike.

 

[Mully]

Well this is what i think of each bike

KX250, has great bottom end, smoth suspesion, and turns quick, The bad, it lacks some topend, and hits really hard in the mid of the power.

CR250, great topend, awsome suspesion, and fun to ride fast. The bad, has almost no bottom end power, like riding a 125 you need to kepp up your RPM, and hits like the old bikes did.

RM250, has awsome bottom, turns like no other, and has a smoth powerband. The bad, well i love the bike so, thats it.

YZ250, it is like the RM and has a tad bit more bottom end. The bad part is i can not afford one.

This gose for the 2005 modles of each bike.

May I ask how you came to these conclusions??

Mully

 

[KDX220 Rider]

I couldn't agree more. It's the rider that counts, it's not like my buddy on his YZ was about to run all over me because of his bike. I just liked the bottom end, low profile tank, and of course the USD forks. Looks like everyone likes the KTM's but I'm not convinced they are worth the extra coin. I am leaning towards 00-04 Jap bikes in the 2 stroke 250cc range.

kingsxjt,
Yea, the rider is the "bottom line". A good rider can make up for an average bike. I'm almost sorry I started the "KTM suggestion" but you asked for my opinion. Two things about opinions, first everyone has one, second, if you've already formed an opinion about a subject you will rarely be convinced to change your opinion just by talk. You've got come to the decision on your own. My opinion still stands on the side of the KTM, and no KTM is not a "fad". I'm assuming most older folks have heard of Penton, which was one of the first true enduro bikes along with Husky. Guess what, Penton was a KTM. They only continue to get better and better every year. Thing is I don't even own a KTM, but want one in the worst way. But I've got kids to raise. I'll step off the soap box now. Good luck with whatever you decide.

 

[kingsxjt]

Hey man, no problem! I should have been a little more exact in my thread title. I just think the Jap bikes are a better value. Heck I may just keep the KDX for braggin' rights against my buds! :cool:

 

[mmz77]

My (used to be stock) cr250 had comparable bottom end to the rest of them... Where did you get this info??? :yikes:

 

[mbaird]

I see all of this bad press on the late cr250 , yet I ride mine on trails all the time and have no problem keeping up with
or outrunning yz250's , cr450's , ktm 300's etc. and I can't
imagine that riding gets much more technical than out here
in the mountains with switchbacks on steep hillclimbs ,
single tracks with boulders , creek and river crossings ,tight
lodgepole trails etc...


These guys all look at me and ask "how do you ride that thing in the mtns" I'm not sure if they have ever ridden a CR250.

I guess I don't know any better !

 

[rider3302]

I say pick a color, buy a jd jetting kit , have the suspension done, and ride! there all pretty good each havig its own "little" quirks to figure out. but as long as its a well maintined bike and you do the same, it will be a good bike.

 

[2 strokes for life]

Mully, this is what i find. This is what i think, i did not say this was the way things are.

 

[KDX220 Rider]

kingsxjt,
Sorry I went off on my last post. Hey, I just remembered a sweet website with an "x" YZ rider named Justin Williamson in case you're not familiar with him. His website is www.williamsonracing.com He now rides with KTM's factory team but most of his videos on the website are him riding his YZ. He rides the wheels off the thing!!

 

[COMBEN]

Maybe I can help? I am an ex-gasser EC-200 owner ;)

I went from a '03 KDX-220 which I liked sooooo much (had 2 others before the '03), I can tell you the difference is like a timewarp, the EC was effortless in the woodsey bits, climbed like a mountain goat (where my mates with pumpkins 450/525s, CRF couldn't) and was fast enough on the open trails.

I raced hard and hard trailed that EC-200 for 1 year (over 60 hours) and never had a breakdown or anything fall off and she still scrubbbed up fresh enough to look almost new.

I tried KTM's etc but the gasser was by far the easiest and most forgiving of the lot and made me ride way way over my ability.

She as stolen recently and will be replaced by an '07 EC-200, I acutally sat and put my head in hands with tears when it had sunk in that she was gone, I liked it that much and so did my other half and the boys as we had shared so much and my EC got me to 1st place novice class in our TnT series of hare and hounds....I can now still get a 2nd by not racing but that isn't the point, the bike was what got me there, not my meagre talent

Just my experience, but if kawasaki had made a modern KDX I feel the gasser would have been the result, all the qualites I liked in my KDX, simple build, very rugged, great it matters, (suspension, brakes, ergo's, reliability, nice enduro/trail touchs like the crankcase drain if you drown the bike :yikes: )) easy on the rider.

You may hear whinges about the build quality when they means 'finish' from those who haven't had one, ask these guys what's bad about the 'build' and all goes quiet...yeah some screws are strange sizes as gasser use the smallest when it will do I assume for weight, yes there are some cable ties here and there but what bike hasn't?
If you read the gasser forum over at smackover breakdowns are very very rare indeed and the owners are very passionate about them...as I am :)

hopes this helps some way...ohh the best I rode that was close to the gasser was the Husky WR-250 a very nice bike with top quality components like the gasser but the aftermarket parts prices I looked at were eye watering...gasser rear subframe £140, Husky £550 :coocoo: and wow that seat was way too high for me and I'm 5'10"..the new gassers are even lower than the pre 07's which were still quite low which will nice for the tricky bits

cheers

 

[uts]

It totally depends on what era you are looking at. Anything pre 95 I would say get the honda cr250. I think Honda had better bikes in the ols days. Now I here the Yz is the best. but havent ridden one.

 

[krazyinski]

I couldn't agree more. It's the rider that counts, it's not like my buddy on his YZ was about to run all over me because of his bike. I just liked the bottom end, low profile tank, and of course the USD forks. Looks like everyone likes the KTM's but I'm not convinced they are worth the extra coin. I am leaning towards 00-04 Jap bikes in the 2 stroke 250cc range.

This is a very good thread and not to bias on all sides, I think in part because the jap bike companys left a the door open due to profitability, the european bike companies focused on the enduro circuit developed some great race ready off road bikes.

The japs do Focus on quality on all there products, the KTM company has brought alot of sponsorship and development to off road racing in the US in the past 10 years.

I think MOST KDX RIDERS are true woods riders and stand out because we are seen in the middle of a see of orange.

I have the new bike fever myself yet there is nothing wrong with my KDX 220 that is seven years old with every mod you can think of ported plated cylinder milled head, carb bored out to36 mm, FMF pipe, vf3 reeds, 10oz flywheel weight,tall seat foam CRhigh mini bars,KX forks , I would love to keep it but wife and 3 kids dictate one bike for me.


I have ridden a 06 KTM 300XC, 06 YZ250F, 07 EC250 GasGas,
and the best and most KDX LIKE is the gasser, the pros of a KTM is that it is smooth the bike I road was set up for a 200lb 6' guy and I thought it was very plush throttle was smooth and powerful but not to explosive, the bike liked to go fast and instilled confidence,but was a hand full in the really tight stuff, cons are, little more vibration, orange is clickish,and expensive like the harley thing. the YZ250F was fun but sucked in the technical stuff, felt choppered out, and under powered.
the GasGas was like riding a KDX dream. but way to pricey.

the benefit of the low resale of jap bikes is that you can find one
with 80% of the mods done for half the price of a euro bike.
but try to sell any new bike with a couple of rides on it and your going to loose money.
most likely I will go with a YZ 250 or keep the KDX. for while longer.

thanks for starting this thread and all the good input.

 

[Mully]

Mully, this is what i find. This is what i think, i did not say this was the way things are.

Not exactly sure what you just said. :whoa:

Is your post regarding each bike what you have researched from the magazines ??

Mully

 

[Red Ryder]

I'v found the CR 250's to have great bottem end.

 

[400exman27]

Are thhe kx 250s really slow on top end I read on the shoot outs that it was second fastest??

 

[2 strokes for life]

Mully, this is what i find the bikes are like.

 

[matego]

I agree with Red Ryder about the CR's. I have a 02 which is supposed to be the worst and I find it great on the trails. I do not ride MX, so maybe that is where the shortfall really comes into play. I rarely find myself working the clutch beyond reason. Sure, it is not a 4 stroke on the bottom, but it works a lot better than the magazines and "internet hype" tell you.

 

[mtk]

The 2002 CR250 is definitely softer on the bottom end than the 2000 CR250 (I've got both). On the 2002, I put on the PWK from my 2000 (the Mikuni was a massive pain to get jetted properly; the Keihin is much more forgiving), had Eric Gorr to a "Mo Betta" porting job on it (a service he no longer offers, unfortunately), swapped out the aluminum clutch plates for steel (a little extra "flywheel" mass), and put on a 10oz Steahly flywheel weight. All of them combined made it a MUCH better woods weapon, partularly at things like hillclimbs. After the mods, it was actually possible to stop on a hill and restart without smoking the clutch or looping it.

 

[kingsxjt]

mtk, do you think the 02 and 00 CR's are ported differently or do you think the carb is the ticket? I'm not ruling out red, heck my boys both have CRF 50's now and I've got alot of confidence in that brand too. I know some say just pick a color and go with it, but I'm far too anal to just pick one only to have to shell out extra money to correct a problem (say a port job) on a certain model that wouldn't have to be done on another. One more ? Is the 02 Aluminum framed? If so, do you guys think they are too stiff?