"SOLD OUT of 250 2-strokes"

[CJG]

The reason I think most people who don't care about AMA racing will choose a 250F or a 450F has to do with them being for most people, easier to ride. I think that holds true for a large segment of riders, not just novices. For me and for a lot of people they are just more fun to ride.

Agreed Rich. I think the four strokes are probably easier to ride for most people, personally I find them very boring. I much prefer the thrill of riding two strokes. Different strokes(literally) for different folks I guess. Of course, as I said before, I'm a dyed in the wool two stroke guy from way back. I was talking more from a racing standpoint. What I really meant was that I don't see the 250F as being at a real disadvantage for beginners and novices, since the ease of riding equals out the lack of performance. But I believe more experienced riders should certainly do better with a 250 two stroke, it's hard to argue with an extra 10-15 HP if the rider is capable of using it. Beginners and novices probably can't take advantage of the extra performance, but better riders should be able to control and make good use of that extra power.

I don't think the bike ridden by some guy in an SX race has much if any impact on real world sales. If it did, CRF250s & 450s would not be the perennial best sellers. Frankly, I'm surprised the OEMs put so much money in SX & MX racing. Suzuki spent a fortune and Ricky won a lot of races on an RMZ450, but people still ran to their Honda dealer and bought CRF450s in droves.

I stand corrected.

...the misinformation and BS routinely shoveled by Luddites and ill-informed two-strokes zealots is laughable. I've done enough work with both two-strokes and four to be able to separate the truth from the moronic BS, and the BS is rampant.

Dang, and here I thought I was finally going to be able to use my B.S. in BS. Guess I wasted all that money on college.j/k :laugh:

P.S.- Rich, do you think the new AMA rules could be a boon to Service Honda? It seems to me that a really good open class rider on a CR or KX500AF should be able to mop the floor with an equal rider on a 450F. In the '04 TWMX review of the Service Honda CR500AF SE, the test riders were 1 to 3 seconds a lap faster on the 500AF than they were on a "modded CRF450". If I had eleven grand to spend I'd order a KX500AF tomorrow. :cool:

 

[Rich Rohrich]

But I believe more experienced riders should certainly do better with a 250 two stroke, it's hard to argue with an extra 10-15 HP if the rider is capable of using it. Beginners and novices probably can't take advantage of the extra performance, but better riders should be able to control and make good use of that extra power.

I think it depends on the track to a large extent. Watching Doug Henry on his YZM400 beat the best two-stroke riders in the world on the rock hard Vegas SX track in '97 proved to me (once again) that having the right type of power is usually more important than having the most power.

Supermoto riders abandoned the more powerful CR500s and KX500s in favor of the more usable power of the 450s.

There is no denying the rush of a 250 two-stroke is fun, but the lap times I've seen from various expert level riders make me think that extra power doesn't always translate into forward progress.

Hopefully the OEMs will sell enough bikes to make continuing development on two-strokes a viable option.

 

[CJG]

Rich, I see you replied while I was editing my previous post. You pretty much answered my PS before I even asked it. Have you been struck by lightning recently and developed the power of precognition?

Hopefully the OEMs will sell enough bikes to make continuing development on two-strokes a viable option.

I hope so too. Thanks for your time. :cool:

 

[Rich Rohrich]

In the '04 TWMX review of the Service Honda CR500AF SE, the test riders were 1 to 3 seconds a lap faster on the 500AF than they were on a "modded CRF450". If I had eleven grand to spend I'd order a KX500AF tomorrow. :cool:

AJ has done some really great work with their new digital ignition to make the 500AF have a more ridable spread of power. No question they'll sell a bunch of them.

 

[2-Strokes 4-ever]

Thanks for your time. :cool:

Ditto. Thanks for the time put into informing us. :cool:

 

[YamaB]

What about Gasgas, and Yamaha? Both are still pursuing r&d in their 2 stroke programs as well... blah.. blah... blah...

It is my impression that the yz250 basically gets cosmetic changes and minor tweaks each year, while ktm basically re-designed the whole bike for '08. You also have to consider that the ktm's come ready to race in the woods, while the yz250 is a hard core mx'er which needs quite a bit of work to get it ready for serious offroad racing. I don't know much about GasGas, so I can't comment on them. I do know that you see VERY few of them around for whatever reason.

This is my 4th season of competitive racing and I would consider myself a fairly skilled rider. I'm probably faster than most, albeit the AA guys still make me look stupid.

As for power, I prefer a smoother power curve w/ loads of torque over a motor w/ a lot of HIT. I've owned a yz250 and kx250 which both had a very big HIT. Lots of fun on the mx track but a handful in the tight woods that I usually race in. Not that my 300 lacks straight line power. My 300 definitely doesn't FEEL that fast due to the smooth power delivery, but I don't have any trouble keeping up with 450 4t's on long straights.

I've owned Yamahas, Hondas, Kawasakis, and Ktms. I don't have any particular brand loyalty, albeit I used to be a die hard Yamaha guy (see my screen name). So far the orange bikes have been the most reliable and over-all my favorites.

 

[wake_rider]

It is my impression that the yz250 basically gets cosmetic changes and minor tweaks each year, while ktm basically re-designed the whole bike for '08. You also have to consider that the ktm's come ready to race in the woods, while the yz250 is a hard core mx'er which needs quite a bit of work to get it ready for serious offroad racing. I don't know much about GasGas, so I can't comment on them. I do know that you see VERY few of them around for whatever reason.

This is my 4th season of competitive racing and I would consider myself a fairly skilled rider. I'm probably faster than most, albeit the AA guys still make me look stupid.

As for power, I prefer a smoother power curve w/ loads of torque over a motor w/ a lot of HIT. I've owned a yz250 and kx250 which both had a very big HIT. Lots of fun on the mx track but a handful in the tight woods that I usually race in. Not that my 300 lacks straight line power. My 300 definitely doesn't FEEL that fast due to the smooth power delivery, but I don't have any trouble keeping up with 450 4t's on long straights.

I've owned Yamahas, Hondas, Kawasakis, and Ktms. I don't have any particular brand loyalty, albeit I used to be a die hard Yamaha guy (see my screen name). So far the orange bikes have been the most reliable and over-all my favorites.

Yeah. Really the yz's just get work on gearing, cosmetic, frame rake and suspension. It can give the bike a completely different feel though. The current yz engine has been the same since 1999, but ride my bike (a 99) and ride an '03 and they feel really different. The bottom end is a lot different, and the suspension is not at all the same.

Gas Gas hasn't really made it's appearance known in the States yet but from what I can tell, it will. It seems they are building too good of bikes to not get more notice in the future.

I ride some pretty tight woods, and I'm very comfortable on my yz. I don't use anything but clutch and throttle control to tame my bike in the woods, and honestly with the aftermarket exhaust and reeds I'm running my bike hits harder than it did when I bought it. I love that hit even in the tight stuff, but it does take some time to get comfortable with it. Now if I get on a tamed down version I have a hard time riding it. I'm so used to that sudden burst I can get by opening the throttle that I have a hard time keeping the front wheel out of the nasty business when I'm riding someone else's bike.

 

[friar tuck]

I see some Gas Gas on the trails around here occiasionally...also see some Husqvarna's from time to time. What's everyone opinion on the Husky's? A dealership just opened up a few blocks from my house...they LOOK like nice bikes. I haven't had a Husky since my '79 250 CR.

 

[jsned]

I rode a Kawasaki 250F for the first time this weekend back to back with my 2004 YZ250. Not a bad bike but definitely down on power for the lazy man. I mean it will haul but you have to really hammer it. It seemed real close in the weight though.

I would like to try one of the woods version.