No advantage had, it just evens out the playing field with other distr AA riders whom don't have assigned numbers. Works just fine for distr. 15 16 17. I don't see why it wouldn't work for distr.14bbarel said:B Rule 12 - AA Rows
For AA row assignment I don't agree with option #1 to reserve rows, but are optional. Either assign the rows or don't reserve any. Can’t have it both ways. This would waste prime rows that other riders could have used, and allows more advantage to AA's over A riders aspiring to join the AA ranks.
INCA said:All the rules in the world will not replace common sense. Do we really need a rule for everything that can happen in life?
Young Ted
UP Magoo said:Sandbagger rule - jeez, there's a ton of this going on, some just more obvious than others. If a silly trophy is THAT important to stroke somebody's ego, let 'em have it. Also IMO, but if you've earned the points to be an A Rider, you should be proud of it -- and ride the class! I know I will, if I can find a class to win in! ;)
Absolutely without a doubt the best post in this thread!!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you YT!INCA said:All the rules in the world will not replace common sense. Do we really need a rule for everything that can happen in life?
Young Ted
It's not just in the off-season! These have been compiled throughout the year from rider discussions, suggestions, and direct requests.fatherandson said:Wow Smit Dog you have been very busy this offseason.
Agreed! I often wonder if it's a mistake to solicit ANY opinions or suggestions on internet discussion forums. The opinions represent only 5-10% of riders, and all it seems to reveal is that it sure doesn't take much to get everyone's panties in a bunch!... Also, it is important to realize that those who visit the on line chat rooms are NOT the only riders/clubs who have an opinion.
Agreed. Not having the Womens class may discourage some from trying an event.Rule 1 - no change necessary. We have some ladies interested in riding on Sunday and I think the "Vet" distinction in the C class is appropriate.
Your's was the only proposal submitted that I didn't have to write myself.... Thank you!Rule 12 - option # 1 looks VERY familiar. Word for word the proposal that I submitted to Tom Dunn two weeks ago.
I don't think that we can or should specify a rule that dictates the scoring software a promoter must use. I also don't think any rule should be so specific as to identify by brand name a product that must be used. Software changes over time; we'd have to change the rule anytime the software changed. Rules should specify and require certain processes, procedures, formats, etc., but that's it. Leave the implementation up to the promoter.Rule 17 Clarifying paragraph 1 - OK. No need for paragraph 2 - if we need to add anything it would be...use MotoTalley are die!
While the concept of having every single D14 enduro rider volunteer to help work an event is awesome, the reality is that it's not practical for many obvious reasons. If anything at all good comes out of this rule proposal, it's the continued discussions that raise awareness among riders. I know over on KTMTalk that bitching about lack of event volunteers has cause at least one rider to take action and volunteer to help next year.Rule 23 - no change necessary - we changed it last year and it worked in 2007.
Disagree. Other districts do not award points unless a rider makes it to the first check (and that's how MotoTally is programed - because every district / circuit using it also does it that way). And hey, that's racing! ...To borrow from some other reasoning.... We all know the risks going into an event, and this is one of them. Enduros are a test of rider (conditioning / skill) and bike (proper prep / maintenance) endurance.Proposed rule A - if a rider pays the $40 and breaks down a mile from the start - GIVE THE POINTS for supporting our sport!
I believe we do need this as a written rule so that it's completely clear and well-known to all riders. How can anyone justify enforcing it if there's nothing to support it?B - do we need a rule? I thought Bill was already enforcing this issue.
Our rule book is "lightweight" compared the the majority of district rule books out there! Why would you think it unnecessary for the district to solve this issue? Just accept it? In a sport that is based on fair and equitable competition??? The AMA doesn't currently have an adequate solution in place.... It is a district issue, and we as a district need to address it - just as so many other districts already have.C & D - WOW!!!! We would double the size of our rule book if we installed this proposal. I do not think it necessary for the district to solve this issue. Please refer it to the AMA.
I agree. If this does nothing more than raise awareness of the issue, then good. I've found that there are big differences among events in how well the trail is arrowed, hazards clearly marked, etc. One factor is that it's not always the same group from year-to-year that marks trail..... Marking "standards" vary event to event and year to year. It'd be nice if the guidelines were occasional reviewed by some of the newer crew members working an event.... You can NOT transfer the responsibility for safety onto the club.
Then you must be really outraged by the 91 pages of the AMA rule book!!!!Fred T said:All I got to say is "holy crap!" The reason I ride on the weekends is I want to get away from the government legislative grips on the weekends and ride my motorcycle not have to hire a lawer to represent me at sign up and trophy presentation.
Agreed.... We just need some rules in place for times when the common sense is not so common.YT said:All the rules in the world will not replace common sense.
Like I said, we need those hosting (and arrowing) the events to actually READ the AMA rules. The AMA Rulebook governs our events, and our D-14 Rulebook is intended to provide supplemental rules unique to our District. The rulebooks should complement each other, not restate what is already there. I think we need to ensure that the event promoters are aware of that fact! Regurgitating rules that should already be adhered to just complicates things, IMO.Smit-Dog said:I've found that there are big differences among events in how well the trail is arrowed, hazards clearly marked, etc. One factor is that it's not always the same group from year-to-year that marks trail..... Marking "standards" vary event to event and year to year. It'd be nice if the guidelines were occasional reviewed by some of the newer crew members working an event.
UP Magoo said:Sandbagger rule - jeez, there's a ton of this going on, some just more obvious than others. If a silly trophy is THAT important to stroke somebody's ego, let 'em have it. Also IMO, but if you've earned the points to be an A Rider, you should be proud of it -- and ride the class! I know I will, if I can find a class to win in! ;)
Wolverine423 said:No shat! End of story! Good post Magoo.
The aspect of competition is never going to be pure or perfect. Not in any sport on the planet from Nascar to Ping Pong. I was taught that when life gets tough on ya you got to toughing up and move ahead as the toys stay in the damn sand box. Now you can take that for what it’s worth and twist it all around as you see fit but that’s the bottom line. Life- Death - Sports and Competition is never going to be fair – That’s why I posted “No shat! End of story! Good post Magoo”.Tired of seeing that horse beat to death just like others. Now you have already turn in you’re AMA card and bad mouthed our district 14 and our district 14 chairman and anyone else that challenges your actions or beliefs as well as resorting to throwing the names out on websites that you feel cheated by. I can’t believe your now calling a little girl and her family a bunch of cheaters on this website…. Now that’s sad! What’s left?....If you’re that damn disgusted with everything & everybody why don’t you follow your actions and just move on instead of pulling shat like this on these websites. To have an opinion and debate it is one thing but labeling little girls & 50 yrs men on websites is another! I have a good feeling that you’re going to find what you’re looking for.salgeek said:sad.
I was truly hopeful that I could introduce my son to fair competition in D14 enduros. Now I'm not so sure this is possible.
Should I teach him how to cheat to win in D14? It was plain as day to him that 2006 FES class winer, T. Woodward didn't have a clock, odometer or route sheet on her bike.
I sure as hell thought that fairness in competition was implied in that contract.
KTM Mike said:where's the schedule?
Great - A 4 lap harescramble on Saturday. As a matter of fact I don't think they through any checks out on last years Saturday event.... :laugh:fatherandson said:D14 is counting both days of the Summer Bummer this year. We did our best to keep a week between each events.